In this episode, I chat with Dee Brock and we discuss how to find hard money lenders, tips in finding deals, how to do the BRRR method and wholesale, and we jump into a new asset class which he recently ventured into storage units.
Dee Brock is from Georgia and currently lives in Glenpool, Oklahoma. I currently do finance for a living. Looking to add properties from the BRRRR method and commercial properties. Now he got 13 homes in his portfolio and some storage units. He was on the real estate rookie podcast over the summer with bigger pockets.
Key takeaways from this episode:
00:29 - Who is Dee Brock?
03:17 - Dee’s aha moment and what made him take the path in Real Estate
05:00 - How Dee started his real estate investing career
06:48 - Strategies to scale your properties
09:47 - Tips and advice to hard money borrowers
13:23 - How to find the best deals in real estate
15:37 - Tips in finding the best deals during the pandemic
16:52 - The advantage of having an agent
22:34 - What happens if the seller decides not to sell last minute?
24:40 - The advantage of investing in storage units
26:57 - How to shift your mindset to achieve more in life
32:32 - How many times do you need to hit somebody with your marketing message to convert to a lead
Tune in to learn more valuable information from this episode!
Subscribe, Listen to our episodes and leave us a review:
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/real-estate-investing-for-freedom/id1570870735
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2d3nMp137jfw6MDyPPsY3j
Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xNzkxNDk0LnJzcw==
Connect with Guest, Dee Brock:
Bigger Pockets: https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/deebrock2003
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dee.brock.7
Email: deebrock2003@gmail.com
Connect with the Host, Dalyn Hazell:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dalyn.hazell/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dhazell24/
Email: dalyndhazell@gmail.com
In this episode, I chat with Dee Brock and we discuss how to find hard money lenders, tips in finding deals, how to do the BRRR method and wholesale, and we jump into a new asset class which he recently ventured into storage units.
Dee Brock is from Georgia and currently lives in Glenpool, Oklahoma. I currently do finance for a living. Looking to add properties from the BRRRR method and commercial properties. Now he got 13 homes in his portfolio and some storage units. He was on the real estate rookie podcast over the summer with bigger pockets.
Key takeaways from this episode:
00:29 - Who is Dee Brock?
03:17 - Dee’s aha moment and what made him take the path in Real Estate
05:00 - How Dee started his real estate investing career
06:48 - Strategies to scale your properties
09:47 - Tips and advice to hard money borrowers
13:23 - How to find the best deals in real estate
15:37 - Tips in finding the best deals during the pandemic
16:52 - The advantage of having an agent
22:34 - What happens if the seller decides not to sell last minute?
24:40 - The advantage of investing in storage units
26:57 - How to shift your mindset to achieve more in life
32:32 - How many times do you need to hit somebody with your marketing message to convert to a lead
Tune in to learn more valuable information from this episode!
Subscribe, Listen to our episodes and leave us a review:
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/real-estate-investing-for-freedom/id1570870735
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2d3nMp137jfw6MDyPPsY3j
Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xNzkxNDk0LnJzcw==
Connect with Guest, Dee Brock:
Bigger Pockets: https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/deebrock2003
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dee.brock.7
Email: deebrock2003@gmail.com
Connect with the Host, Dalyn Hazell:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dalyn.hazell/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dhazell24/
Email: dalyndhazell@gmail.com
Introduction 0:00
This is the real estate investing for Freedom podcast, where we bring on the experts to teach you the golden nuggets of real estate investing, so you can escape the rat race and start living life on your terms. Now, here's your host Dalyn Hazell.
Dalyn Hazell 0:22
Hey, what's up, guys, and welcome back to another episode of the show, I think you're gonna enjoy this interview with Dee Brock. He is a beginner, but also he's got some experience under his belt. So he's not too far out of reach from the first-time beginner. And he's still relatable to the more experienced investor. He's got 13 homes in his portfolio and some storage units. And he's just rocking and rolling. He was on the real estate rookie podcast over the summer with bigger pockets. And so he has a lot to share. When it comes to finding hard money lenders, finding deals, doing the burr method and wholesaling, and just jumping into a new asset class, he's recently ventured into storage units. So he's a great interview here, we're gonna get to the show shortly. But as I want to mention today's golden nugget of the day. Today's golden nugget is to make sure to know your investor DNA. And investor DNA is what you as an investor are best at. So this is like a prelude to a future episode where we dive into the investor DNA more in-depth. But for example, my investor DNA is I like to have three-bedroom brick rental properties, because one, they're lower maintenance, and you can get a higher quality tenant. For example, I found out pretty soon in my journey that I did not like the high headache, high turnover type rentals in the not-so-good area. So that's part of my investor DNA that if I find a property like that, I will sell it instead of keeping it. And so that's something I had to learn. And that's something that our guest today has done a really good job about is finding his investor DNA, finding what he's good at. So we're going to dive into the episode soon here. But I just wanted to mention, find your investor DNA, because it's going to cut out a lot of the noise and the shiny object syndrome that you have in your life. And it's not, it's not bad to settle on one strategy and ignore everything else. In fact, it's a good thing. And that's what Dee Brock did. And then he finds he finds a good time to transition into a different asset class. Once he's mastered single family, for example, he moves on to storage units. And so I'm excited to get into this one. But that is the gold nugget of the day. Thanks for being here, guys. And enjoy the interview with Dee Brock. Welcome to the show Dee. How are you today?
Dee Brock 2:49
Good. How are you? Thanks for having me.
Dalyn Hazell 2:51
I'm fabulous. Thanks for asking. And we're excited to have you on I heard you on the bigger pockets rookie podcast. I know that was a big deal for you to be on there. And I listened to that show all the time. So I thought, hey, let's have Deon till he can share his story. And so let's start the show by saying When was your aha moment in real estate? When did the lightbulb click on for you and say this is the path? For me?
Dee Brock 3:16
That's a great question. I think that's probably when I had three houses or so was my aha moment because I work a lot. And the downside of that is globally for my family, more than I want, my kids all play sports, every single one of them. And so most of the time sports are on the weekends. And so my whole goal is to, start seeing how I can start getting residual income from these houses. So I figured if I would get some money from that, I would actually be able to escape and go to their games and be more present. And so when I started seeing all that extra income come in from the cash flow, and then also I manage my own properties. So I pay myself 15%, so it's $1,000 rent, that's 150 bucks for one house, not to mention my cash flow, which is normally given or take 100 bucks. So that's $250 from just one house. So then I was like me, and I started doing the math. I was like, Well, I can get x amount of houses at 250 each. I mean, I could literally make, 10 grand a month, five grand a month, just thing which it but most importantly was going to the kid's games with me and president. That was my aha moment.
Dalyn Hazell 4:34
Yeah, that's a great way to think of it. For sure. I think a lot of investors get into it in their free time. Most people I've spoken with have a family and so they see how they want to be more involved with their family. And so they see real estate as an avenue to get there. And so that's awesome. So where how did you start? You started with three houses but I'm sure you didn't really start with three houses. So how did you get those three houses and then explain kind of where you are now.
Dee Brock 5:00
So my very first house I got was I bought with my brother in girl Glenville, Oklahoma. And we both went into it, not knowing what to expect a little bit of fear. I think actually, there was a lot of fear. That's really why we went together was we had this game plan that we would have this emergency fund, and if something were to happen, and we had issues, it was easier to split it amongst each other versus separately, one of us taking the full, full blow. So we got started that way. And it turned out pretty good. I think you hear horror stories of people saying that I had a rental house, and it was the worst. Oh, my gosh, I'll never do it again. Sure, I guess that's possible. we just did a really good job betting our tenants. And so far, we've had a good amount of tenants that play pay on time, it's not a headache when people pay on time. It's not a headache when you look upon the first one there. So that house went fairly well. So then I went ahead, and my mom actually was going to buy a house. So what we did was her current house, I ended up because I was on the loan with her on that house, we ended up renting that house. And that gave me the second house. And so once we did that, we got her and her house and that just started the whole process of buying properties.
Dalyn Hazell 6:29
That's awesome. So you kind of got into it unconventionally, a lot of people, they just get started putting 25% down on a property, but you kind of finagle your way into the industry. I think that's awesome. And so where were how have you scaled up from there? Because I know you have more than three properties now.
Dee Brock 6:47
Yeah, so I scaled by, I bought a couple more properties after that because I saw it was, how much luck I was having. So then I tried a hard money lender. That was interesting. And then, another way I did it was, so for some people just don't have cash available. some people go Well, it'd be easy if I had 10,000 or 20,000. But you can, you can get a line of credit, and that's what I did was open up a line of credit with my local credit union. And then I used a hard money lender. out there. It's defiance capital, Jake Lascaux. He's amazing. And he only does Tulsa. So people who live in Tulsa will do specialize in just Olson. But what's nice is, they'll do I forget how much money down 15% Now, well, on $100,000, house 15% down is 15 grand. And so people go, Well, I don't have 15 grand, so I'm done, I guess I can't do it, well take out a line of credit, I got a line of credit with Tinker for 30 grand, I take out that 15 grand, for example. And I buy that house and in three months, I would refinance it with also federal, and then I would reimburse my $15,000 back into my line of credit back to zero. So then I realized how easy it was. And then I just started getting more houses, get more houses, it worked out really well. And then obviously COVID hit. It was difficult. It was different. But I've only been at the business for, a year. I mean, I didn't know any better. So but after that, I started selling and we can get into details on that and then start getting me more houses. So I'm not stressing as much as most people are, I feel like a lot of people maybe have given up since our houses are so expensive.
Dalyn Hazell 8:47
Yeah. So let's go by baby steps on how you basically got to where you're at. So you mentioned a strategy in which you used a line of credit for the downpayment, and then hard money lending for the remainder, the lion's share of the loan. I think that's an awesome strategy, because a lot of hard money lenders when you're starting out, want a significant portion. They want skin in the game from you. And so if you don't have that, you can get a line of credit on your personal residence or maybe a farm you have or any equipment you own. You can get that from family and friends. So there are ways to front that downpayment. And then and then like you said, refinance and pay everybody off. So that's a cool strategy. Any other tips you have when coming into contact with like hard money lenders because I said, I heard you say that? That experience was interesting. Were there any setbacks or tips of advice you'd give somebody?
Dee Brock 9:44
Well, yeah. So the hard money loan was interesting because the first one I tried so I did some research. I did research on almost everything that I did, that I've done, but I went with the hard money lender that was, I wouldn't say the cheapest. But I mean, that obviously will, you'll sway towards someone's gonna save you the most amount of money based off their fees. And then it was just a disaster from there. I mean, they just didn't communicate, things kept changing each time I talked on the phone, I mean, it got to a point where I actually had to start recording the calls with this hard money lender, because, his story kept changing. And then he would say, I'm going to call you back and he never came back. So it was just a disaster. So my advice when it comes to hard money lenders is, I would go off from referrals, in there's not I don't know if there's unless you're, you're, you have a connection with people who are doing the same thing. I don't know, if you just go to a random job and say, Hey, we're hard money lender using because we don't use them. But I, I got one, he actually reached out to me on bigger pockets, which I think is a great source to go to, there's so much stuff to learn there. And the difference between if people don't know what a hard money lender is, the difference between a hard money lender and a normal conventional lender is a hard money lender is higher rates, more fees. But what I liked about that, versus a conventional is a conventional loan, you got to provide your income, they got to go through a process, it takes 30 days to close, and it just takes forever. And a hard money lender, Jake Lasco, the company I used with Defiance is I didn't have to do all that they pulled my credit, which is not a big deal. They didn't ask for proof of income, they didn't ask for bank statements, ask for anything, they just take your word for it. And once you build like a portfolio with them, then you just call them to say, Hey, I'm buying this house at XYZ, and they just send over the wire money. So convenience is a huge thing when it comes to hard money lenders. So build that relationship. And it makes it 10 times easier to buy a house. So that's what I've been I've been doing lately. It's really easy.
Dalyn Hazell 12:00
Yeah, referrals have worked for me with the hard money lender, I've used the same one since I got my start. And we've done four or five deals together. And never have to worry about the money showing up or any integrity issues. And it's because I started by asking the biggest players in my market, who do you use? And then they directed me towards this individual. And so I have no need to look anywhere else. But I know the struggle. I can imagine the struggle of having somebody that you're depending on to close the deal or to get your rehab money. And then you have to jump through a lot of hoops.
Dee Brock 12:33
So yeah, it was my first big purchase to add a $13,000 rehab, I had a lot of money invested from my escrow earnest money in escrow. So there's a lot of money on the line. But the nice thing about these hard money lenders is we tell any house we buy, we tell them it's a cash deal with the private lender. So it's submitted as cash. So obviously, when a seller is looking at offers they go, Well, let's go with the cash deal. So yeah, he's awesome.
Dalyn Hazell 13:01
And your integrity is on the line. So you want to make sure it closes. Yeah, are saying gosh, yeah, that's a big deal for sellers. Talk about how you were finding those deals in the early days. I know this was just last year or whatever. But talk about how you were sourcing those deals.
Dee Brock 13:21
Well, I mean, it was MLS. So it was I was just jumping on the MLS every morning. I would get up. It was five o'clock in the morning, which I'm personally I was brutal. But you can lay there and you say Option A is I can sleep in and you know and retire working or I can get up two hours early and then retire early. What's more important than extra two hours of sleep now it's not. So I would get up early and eventually gets to a point where it's easier. It's still really, really difficult, but it gets a little easier. Anyways, I'd get up look at the MLS and then I would if I found a house, I would actually send it to my agent. So what I would do is my credit unions, Tulsa federal, so they always do refinances, okay, and they'd refinance at 80%. So if I found a house that I liked, I would email my real estate agent. And I would tell ask her, Hey, what is the what is her value on this house? Okay, and she would say 100 grand. And so I would say all right, well, it looks like it needs 10 grand and repairs. So if it's worth 100 grand and Tulsa federal is going to give me 80% That's 80,000 Minus 1000 for repairs. That puts me in 70,000 Minus five grand for closing costs, so then I would make the offer based on that. And then that's how it here's the thing I would make 10 offers. I mean, I will legitimately make 10 offers just to get one and that's the closing cost Senator. So each house we get up, I'd find a house, I sent it to her. And, and we would make an offer sight unseen. Because I don't have time to go look at every single house. But the nice thing is if someone did offer because there were times where they would accept your offer, and I was like, Ooh, that's exciting me. And this is a great house. And then I get out there and I will see, foundation issues or, all kinds of stuff I've tried to after we made the offers, it was interesting. You're curious, why was my offer accepted. But we go there, some of them we would accept and some of them we wouldn't, but that's how we got started was the MLS. And then after the MLS COVID happened. And so houses are really hard to find, I mean, the houses that you would find, you would have to, you'd have to get them early. And in the early ones, people were asking, getting over asking price, so it's really difficult to find, because it's just like you and I mean, we're trying to find houses for rentals, and so everyone was through them. So then I got into the wholesale business, not necessarily trying to be a wholesaler, but trying to find houses. So we did my wife and I did what's called driving for dollars and people are interested, you just drive and look at houses that look rundown. And we wrote down the addresses. And then we went home and we sent out a letter to every single one of them. And we had a lot of replies. And we closed some houses that way too.
Dalyn Hazell 16:28
Well, obviously your evolution of sorts and deals went from MLS to taking it into your own hands to try to find the best deals. That's awesome. And I'm curious going back to those properties that you'd make a sight-unseen offer on how did you get out of the contract? If the seller accepted your contract? Did you have an inspection contingency period there?
Dee Brock 16:51
Yes, the key question. Yeah, when we would submit our offers, we would submit an offer pending inspection. And, and also, we would submit our offers with, a home warranty included, we would submit with a few things, but yeah, those are out was just inspection. Because even if I went and looked at the house, and liked it, I would still have someone come in and do a professional inspection. And they came in there and saw that there were termites, then that would lead me out of the deal. So it just made it easier for her and me to make our offers sight unseen. And she's a trooper to It's Monica medley. She's awesome. And she and I hadn't, basically in a mutual agreement that we're going to make a lot of offers, and she's going to do a lot of work. But she's so great at what she does. And she is she knows more about houses in repairs and maintenance than most people that I know. And so it was perfect for me going in because I didn't know, you know a ton about houses. And so I'd go out there and she'd be like, Oh, DN is this, this and this, and it's gonna cost this much. And that was perfect because I'll be like, Okay, well, what do you think we should make an offer on? And we looked at a house like three weeks ago, I forget what it was, I want to say they're asking 125. And after looking at it, she's when she found out the people who actually owned it were investors from Florida. And they had just bought it two months ago. So why they were selling it? Who knows. But she's like, What do you think the are you interested? I was like, Yeah, I think I would be interested in like 80 grand it was I think it's what it was. And she goes, You should offer 50 Like, oh my gosh, all right. So we offered him 50. And, unfortunately, it ended up actually going over a lot higher. So we didn't get it but still good to have an agent that you know is on the same page as you.
Dalyn Hazell 18:48
Yeah, you have like a one-stop-shop there. And I was always the person who encouraged everyone to be their own agent, get their license yourself and just do it all yourself to save commission and time. But you actually don't really save a lot of money you don't certainly don't save time is what I've found. I love having now I'm not an agent anymore. I love having an agent I trust to do a lot of that legwork for me because my mindset in business has shifted to more income-producing activities. I allow the professional over there to be the professional and I'm over here doing my thing. So we complement each other. So it's awesome. You had that one-stop-shop then she actually encouraged you to make low offers.
Dee Brock 19:31
Yeah, what did you like about being your own agent? Was there a benefit versus I've thought about it? I mean, I know that I would think positive would be I can go look at house anytime I want. What did you think?
Dalyn Hazell 19:43
Yeah, so I haven't actually shared this with a lot of people but first of all, the reason I got my license was to more like speed to lead and by speed to lead as a term in sales. Where the first one there usually gets the deal or, and so if I'm the first person making an offer because I don't have to ask my agent to make an offer for me, I can just shoot it off. I could look at the house if I wanted to. I can save commissions by paying myself that commission, I can get access to comps on the MLS. Those were some of the reasons I got it. And as I've transitioned to more off-market, focusing on wholesaling, it just doesn't really fit too well with where I'm headed. I'm okay paying somebody 3% I'm okay with not making the offer myself because I don't do a lot of MLS stuff anymore. I'm doing off-market. And then comps I have a software that runs comps for me. So I don't really need access to the MLS and that software's called prop stream comm. So those are the reasons I guess, man and so a lot of people I know are successful with their license as an investor, but I just found I didn't need it.
Dee Brock 20:52
Yeah, good point. I think that there are pros and cons to it. I feel like, the pro would be to get even be the first person. And, but I just feel like you're going to be putting more work in your view more, you're the write up your own offers. And that was another thing when we made offers, we figured we make an offer, including home warranty, pending inspection, and 5% closing costs included. So I want to come out of pocket as least as possible. Yeah, so that saved me a little bit of money there.
Dalyn Hazell 21:25
Yeah, there is so much paperwork and being an agent, and I just hated that. I love my little one-page, off-market contract. Just sign the line here. Yeah, I have to worry about an eight-page, Missouri Real Estate Commission contract.
Dee Brock 21:38
Hey, let me ask you this because I have a house that was under contract that fell through. It was when I tried to sell it. I wanted to purchase it off-market. And then 20 days in, they backed out. They said they changed your mind about what you do in that situation?
Dalyn Hazell 21:57
So in that situation, you're selling a house, and you're buying their house? Oh, you're buying the house. And so they backed out. They said it's not for sale. 20 days. Okay. And so was there any? Honestly, on-air right now? I can't I can't really answer that question. I'm not actually sure what you do. Okay. Did you? Was it with an agent?
Dee Brock 22:21
No, it was just an individual seller. And we found that off-market and what we found and then we had a 60 day closing in 20 days, and they said they changed their mind.
Dalyn Hazell 22:33
So if you were under contract, I mean, that is a legally binding contract, you have the right to pursue them legally, in court. Not everyone will, you certainly should get your earnest money back if you had any. And then what typically happens in that scenario is they've shopped your offer, and they found a better offer. So you can actually file at the court level, it's called a Notice of interest in a lie. That way, when that seller tries to sell that property, they can't sell it to anybody but you, and you pay a small fee. And it basically clouds that title to where if they're ever going to sell it, they have to sell it to you. I've heard of people doing that, especially in the wholesaling business.
Dee Brock 23:17
Yeah, a notice of interest. So to be repelled salsas about a cloud, and then I asked the title office, can we cloud the title? That's what I miss? Yeah, like, what the heck does that mean? But the notice of interest? Sounds a little more professional.
Dalyn Hazell 23:32
Yeah. And that's when a competent title company really comes into play when they can get creative because what they might tell you is no, it can't be done. But sure enough, there are people doing it. And that's just the vehicle that a lot of people in my mastermind view and taught me notice of interest there. Make sure to check that out next time. If it's a super-profitable deal, you might want to do that. If you're gonna make like three to five grand on it. Is it really worth your trouble? Maybe your reputation to do that? I'm not sure. You'll have to decide that for yourself. But good question. Yeah. Well, awesome. Well, where are you headed? Like, how many doors do you have? And have you transitioned into any other asset classes than single-family homes?
Dee Brock 24:21
So great question. I am, I'm closing on two this month. So that will put me at 13 houses. And then I have a storage unit that I bought earlier this year. It's a 19 unit storage facility. And so I have that going for me. So that's where I've kind of gone a little bit off the path of houses, because I've heard good things about storage units and so far, so good. I mean, I don't have, toilets or any leaky roofs. I mean, it's just a storage unit. So only Everything has pros and cons, the only con is, just, instead of having to manage one house, I got to manage 19 storage units. And then most of them paid perfectly fine. A few of them are older to where they don't do auto draft. And so then I have these send in the mail their checks in, and their checks come in, like five days, after the first, that's fine. I would love to definitely find another storage unit because I think there's a lot of money that's, that comes into it. But yeah, sitting at once I close these to me at 13 houses my goal is 30 that will give me eight houses for this month, or this month this year. And that's not including my current house. In my current primary house, we ended up buying a house just two, three months ago. And we're actually remodeling it. And so my current house will turn into an Airbnb. So give me 14 houses. But I'm not counting that right now. Because it's still in the process.
Dalyn Hazell 26:03
That's really awesome. So you've really scaled up from where you are. And this is all just in the last year or two.
Dee Brock 26:09
Yeah, yeah, that will be all in just one year. So I've seen people do it. And why not me, I mean, the quicker that I can get know, this knocked out, the quicker that I can be present for my kid's full baseball games, their full ball games, their whole basketball games, instead of just showing it for a couple of quarters, or two halves or something like that. Yeah. And
Dalyn Hazell 26:31
kids just grow up so fast. So you're you feel like you're on a time clock where you don't want to miss those special moments. I think that's cool. Talk about mindset, because I know behind you, you have like your goal board. And you're obviously heavy into the mindset you have to be to get this far. So where how is your mindset shifted in the last two years? And what would you recommend to somebody looking to grow their mindset?
Dee Brock 26:57
I think that the biggest thing is you need to, I think you need to have a goal and what you're chasing after, you can't just say this, I'm going to try to buy a house. I mean, you have broken it down, how many houses? First off, what's your main goal? What are you trying to accomplish? Right? retire early? Okay. Well, how are you going to do that? Well, I need to buy 30 houses, hey, well, how do you buy 30 houses, how to put in some offers? Okay, how many offers did you get? so you got to bring it down almost to a penny of exactly what you're going to do. But you just have fun, what's your mindset and how you can get there and then hold yourself accountable. I have the word. Now that we're moving, it's not a wall, it's kind of a blank wall. Really. I had a spreadsheet that I created that kept track of how many offers I made each week, I had to make a certain amount of offers that month to get to where I wanted to go. And so, I think I said it in a podcast when doing your pockets are a lot of people will wait, they'll have this goal. I'm gonna do it this year. And then November rolls around, they go, oh, man, I saw done that I need to really get down and get after it. But by that time, the year is almost over. So it's good to have in front of you the entire time so that you can, hold yourself accountable. Scott can account for this just mine as a goal and a board that I put on the walls. And when I come into my office every morning, I see it. And I know where I'm at. I know every single month on the first when I go through my quote-unquote, payrolls, find out who's paid and who hasn't. I monthly check my nets in my, your date, my net income, how many houses I'm at how I'm getting per month. And so I know where I'm at. And then how most importantly, how far away I am to hitting goals where I can financially, be free, and go and spend more time with my family.
Dalyn Hazell 29:04
Yeah, whatever you track grows, I mean, so I have a bookmark on my computer where I track my net worth. I've got my goals. I write them down as well as put them on my wall. You just want to it's so interesting how our brains work because we'll gravitate towards things that we see repetitively. And so if you're seeing politicians fight online, repetitively, that's what you're going to think about and dwell on. But if you see your goals, you see where you're headed. You see the free time you're going to gain you envision that, then it's going to just expand you're going to, I believe attract that back to yourself. There's no way that can't happen. It's a lot. And, and so that that's great advice about your mindset. Yeah, go ahead.
Dee Brock 29:53
I have a friend that I work with that is young and he wants to get into houses So it's probably going on six, seven months. And, I keep telling him, what do you have you? Have you found a house yet? He keeps saying I want to do it. So I think that's a prime example. Most people procrastinate, we put it off, it's like that saying we're Sonia was mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna quit procrastinating. I'm going to start tomorrow, it's like, okay. But I feel like, if you're sitting here thinking, it's too hard, I can't do it, we'll just, set a small goal, this for a month? What do you do in a month? Well, I'm gonna start doing research. I'm gonna watch, one bigger pockets video a week, or I'm going to watch, a certain podcast a week, do something. Because by the time you look up, it's gonna be November and yours gonna be almost over. And it's a big difference.
Dalyn Hazell 30:59
Yeah, that's great. Let's go back to finding deals because we talked about how you're finding them on the MLS. Talk about more of the driving for dollars and where you're headed going forward because you and I both know that the best deals are not found on the MLS typically.
Dee Brock 31:17
Yeah, I mean MLS is I mean, doing your own, there's probably still some deals on there. But going forward, I just feel like your best deals are, are off-market. And the thing about it is, I got lucky on my first letter, I mean, just had personally sold me multiple houses. I mean, it worked out really well. That's not going to happen, I would assume. Because I'm not like you to where I do a lot of wholesaling. So maybe it's good to question for you. But, I feel like you have to, you got to go after it 123 times, because the very first guide that I sold the very first guy that I bought off-market, he told me that he got letters every single day. And he just said, I got yours. And I just happen to give you a call. And so, it was really timing too. I mean, I think that it's important to be in their face to where they think about it, they think about you. Because if not, they're just going to go someone else. So I mean, I don't know, how often do you send your letters out? Do you have a follow-up process where you send it to them every month? And what do you do to stay relevant?
Dalyn Hazell 32:32
Yeah, conventional advice is you need to hit somebody 712 times with your marketing message to convert to a lead. And sadly, most sales professionals maybe get one or two times. And that includes follow-up touches. So you don't have to send 12 letters to the same individual. It also includes text messages, calls voicemails, just a touch. And so I don't typically go to 12. But I try to do seven. So I have like a sequence of letters, or postcards that I send to pretty much everyone that is, I think is the most highly motivated to sell. That's if I'm doing direct mail to that individual, I try to send at least seven pieces of paper, whether that's a letter or postcard. And then if it's a calling, if it's a lead, I'm trying to call, I'll try to add up to seven as far as calls, texts, and voicemails. And that gives me the best chance possible. Now obviously, I'm not going to call somebody seven times if they told me never call me on the first one. I'm very methodical with it. I'm smart with it, I focus my marketing on people who have a high low likelihood of selling as I said, but also who want maybe have a desire, to sell. And so that's my advice, man. I mean, it's not down to a tee or anything. But I try to do seven touches.
Dee Brock 34:00
But has there ever been a time where you sent someone? One letter, two letters, three letters? And then, maybe they said, Man, I got your fourth letter, I just have a call.
Dalyn Hazell 34:11
Oh my gosh, yes. So the company I use, I do a letter for the first touch. It's a nice, formal longer letter. And then after that, there are seven postcards. And the postcards all have different marketing copies, one might be selling your house without cleaning it out. Another might sell fast for cash today. So whatever somebody's struggling with the marketing message that resonates best with them, they'll at least get hit with that. They may not like my no commissions postcard, but they might like my sell for cash postcard, you see. And then just brand awareness. So I redirect them to my website, they can see my logo there that I am a legit company. And I think that goes along with
Dee Brock 34:58
Yeah, do you have? And sorry, I'm asking the question. But do you have a website? Do you use a CRM? Or what do you use to direct your business to your site?
Dalyn Hazell 35:09
Yeah, and this is a don't be afraid to ask questions is a great discussion on wholesaling and how to find deals. So when somebody gets my card they have it has my URL on it. And so I can track who's gone to my website, I use the carrot.com websites that most investors are familiar with. And then once they fill out a form of a website, or they call, they automatically get added to my CRM recently, and that's our e si MP Li. And so that way they can keep I can keep track of that lead there. And it's all connected. most apps have integration nowadays. So that's what I've found is being able to keep me centered in my business. Keep a flow there.
Dee Brock 35:59
Yeah, I feel like well, I feel like with the first house I bought off-market. I'm trying to remember exactly the details on it. But I want to say, I, I text them first and got a reply that said they weren't interested. Or I called them but either way, the first time, the wife replied to me and said they weren't interested. And then so the second time I reached out to him was by complete accident, it was on to the CRM, and I was using freedom soft, that sent out a text. And yeah, that's what it was. And so the text came back from that software, hey, I'm interested, give me a call. So that's what it was. Because I sent an individual I was driving for dollars, and I sent a text for my cell phone and got a reply with no not interested, that came from his wife. And then the second text by complete accident, I didn't even send it to them, was when he replied, so it's a prime example of, I wouldn't let someone saying no, throw you off. And, because you never know what happens to people's lives, right now, you might reach out to someone who's current on their mortgage, and then, six months from now, they're, they're all sudden behind. And, and that's a perfect person to find them at their, quote, unquote, pain point right there, what's going on with them. So,
Dalyn Hazell 37:16
exactly, I've gotten so many deals off of just the third or fourth, or fifth touch. And I can track that in my system like they received this postcard. And then they called right after they received that it's pretty cool, like human psychology and how that all works. But the point of the matter is, you're doing something, you're marketing yourself, you're telling others about your business, even if it's just making a Facebook post, I buy houses, make sure you tell as many people as you can that you buy houses. Yeah,
Dee Brock 37:48
so the carrot.com, or whatever you have this app track, when they reach out to you or text you or go to your website, what we saw about that, I mean,
Dalyn Hazell 37:57
carrot.com is a done-for-you, Website Builder for real estate, investors, and agents. And I only really get to track that if they visit the website. so I have a phone number on my website. And then I have a different phone number in my letter. So I know if they called me from X number, it's from that website or letter. And phone numbers are cheap. So try to create a lot of them to have the best insight on your business.
Dee Brock 38:32
Yeah, it makes sense. Do you have each postcard have each separate number? So which, brother?
Dalyn Hazell 38:37
Absolutely not? No. I mean, if I want to get really granular with it, I'll send out a postcard campaign of like, 2000 postcards, I'll have a number on that. So I can track the effectiveness of that campaign versus a campaign be of the same amount of postcards. But I mean, there are a million ways, things to track in your business. And what I've learned is you don't want to get too bogged down in tracking KPIs, key performance indicators, or else you're not going to do any business. So have a few KPIs you're tracking but don't have a ton of KPIs. Yeah, yeah. It's like overanalyzing it. Yeah, you can become a data analyst versus a real estate investor. Well, Dee, let's wind down to this last portion of our show, we gave a lot of gold nuggets there for sure. This last part is called the triple threat. And it's the same three questions I asked each guest on the show. What has been the biggest app resource or tool that has been the biggest game-changer in your business?
Dee Brock 39:47
Biggest game-changer? Well, I mean, I do have I've gone through a lot of CRMs trying to find out how to manage my properties. And I think the one that I've had the most success with was it's called rent direct. Have you ever heard of it? No, I haven't. So what I like about it is it tracks all your properties. And then when a property comes available, you just mark it as available and it will post it on all the websites Facebook is a big one. And then people can set up their automatic payments your tenants can pay through the website in they can do background checks, credit checks, and then you can they can pay for their application fee everything through there. So that's been a big one for me on that and then Excel I'm big spreadsheet. I think a lot of people I don't know if a lot of people are but I love doing spreadsheets. I love the numbers side of it. I like creating something. So that's been a big thing for me was the rent direct and in the spreadsheets.
Dalyn Hazell 40:49
Cool. Does that software rent direct? Does it collect rent as well?
Dee Brock 40:54
Yeah, because you can set up automatic payments There, it's it was a big game-changer for me. Not everyone uses it, some people will go to the bank that I bank with, I always try to have the same bank around my house. And I really try to keep all my houses in the same area. But I've got a couple out and Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. So there's a bank out there, but I tried the same bank. But yeah, it's all through there. And then, you can charge the tenant a fee for paying online, but I mean, there's this pointless I mean, it's just getting greedy. I'm not gonna charge my tenants more money for paying online. They're actually doing me a favor by paying online. But I guess there are always people out there looking to get a little extra money. That's just not me.
Dalyn Hazell 41:40
Yeah. Cool. So it's like an all-in-one property, man. Yeah, of course, of course,
Dee Brock 41:44
own one. And I did a lot of searching, I was on bigger pockets. And there's a post talking about, the best CRMs. And I went through every single CRM, and finally found that one. So so far, so good. I'm not saying that will be the end of all the ones I'm going to use forever. But as of right now, it's been perfect.
Dalyn Hazell 42:04
Sweet. Question number two, what has been your biggest learning lesson in the last year?
Dee Brock 42:12
The biggest learning lesson in the last year, the biggest lesson is probably that things are always changing and evolving. And, you're gonna have to just adjust to the market. And pray and also the fact that I'm still learning, I mean, every single day, we're learning not every day, but you're always learning something. You think you are talking to the very beginning talking about how you think you know it all and really see or get an idea that and then, you talk to someone who's completely lost, and you're like, Oh, that was me a year and a half ago, and then if me and for yours will look at me today as someone who's new. So you're always learning and I think the key to it is applying it. And don't be scared to fail. you're we're all going to fail. But what are you going to be the person that fails and gives up, you're going to be the person who fails and learns from it and makes yourself better? Because those people that we talked about at the beginning that had renters in the first renter was just so difficult, and I just can't do it. I'm out of the market. Well, those people fail, and they quit. Instead of being like, Okay, well, perfect. What can I do now to make sure that this doesn't happen again? so I think that's the biggest thing I've learned is that you're gonna fail, don't stress so much about it, and learn from it. Because the thing is, God's got a plan. He's got it all figured out, so we're gonna get it all figured out together.
Dalyn Hazell 43:43
Yeah, fail forward. That's what they say.
Dee Brock 43:45
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Dalyn Hazell 43:47
Question three, our podcast is all about helping others achieve freedom with real estate investing, whether that's a financial lifestyle, or otherwise. So what does freedom mean to you?
Dee Brock 43:57
I think we talked about the very big freedoms to me is being present, or that is the most important thing to me. And that's why I wake up every morning early. And I do what I do, because, I have four kids, I think, when I did the podcast I had, I still had four kids. So I actually have another one on the way. So it'd be number five. And that will be at the end of this month, actually, only a couple of weeks, November 15, is probably going to have that child. And so, I want to present for that kid or may seem like I'm an absent father. I mean, I just, I, I get up when I'm, when I work at work in the mornings, I get up early, and I get home, around six or seven. By that time, the days almost run down. And so but the biggest thing to me, as I said, is being at the sporting events, because I remember when I was little my dad was there all the time. And I love looking up and seeing his face, and I feel like that's the same thing with me. I want to be able to be at their games to where they look up and go, Oh, that's here. I don't want them to look up throughout the whole game of baseball 19 games looking worse, that was dead. So that's what eats at me. So that is why I do what I do. And a lot of people do it for money perfectly. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with having a happy medium. But I just want to make enough money to where I can wake up every morning and not have to go to work. So do what I want and not stress about it.
Dalyn Hazell 45:25
Yeah, yeah, everyone has what they're going for. And you've found that that's the most important thing that you have that goal, that vision in your mind, for sure. Well, where can listeners get a hold of you to learn more about you?
Dee Brock 45:39
Oh, I'm not on all these social media things. I'm on Facebook. I mean, I'm on Twitter, but I don't really keep up with Twitter. Facebook pockets. That's really where I'm most active. And a lot of people from my bigger pockets posts have sent me messages on Facebook Messenger. So that's where I'm active. If you have any questions and need any advice, I mean, I'd be more than happy to try to talk to people as much as I can to help me answer any questions and get you through where I was at that point.
Dalyn Hazell 46:15
Awesome. And for those interested in listening to the rookie podcast, Dee was on episode 67 of The Real Estate rookie podcast. And that's hosted by bigger pockets. So make sure you check that out after this one if you haven't already. Yeah, well, awesome. Dee, it's been a pleasure to have you on and see you growing. And that's always inspiring to see somebody who started just, one or two years ago, and you already have 13 properties and 19 storage units, I think you're well on your way to achieving that number, where it makes sense for you to spend much more time with your family. I think that's pretty cool. So thanks for being on.
Dee Brock 46:57
Yeah, thank you. Thanks a lot.
Outro 47:00
Thank you for listening to the real estate investing for Freedom podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave us a review and tune in next week for the next episode.