What Value Add Really Means and How it Can Make You Millions | Terrance Doyle

In this episode, Dalyn sits down with Terrance Doyle and discusses value add real estate investing. In this episode, you’ll learn how Terrance transitioned from single family investing to mult-family investing, as well as the best way to add value to properties.

Terrance Doyle is a full-time real estate investor focused on Multi Family and Single Family real estate investments, also the host of BiggerPockets Multi Family Mentors Show. Terrance has a proven track record in both the apartment and Single Family sectors. Currently managing over $200M in assets, the Value Add Real Estate Company(VareCo) holds 350+ units in Terrance’s hometown of Des Moines, Iowa as well as 300+ units in the Denver metro.

VareCo, which Terrance co-founded in 2015, has grown its portfolio year after year averaging 10 Multi Family acquisitions annually between the two markets with deal size averaging $4M. Combining 10 years of experience personally with some strategic mentors carrying 50-plus years of experience across a broad spectrum of real estate, VareCo has emerged a leader across Colorado/Iowa. This is largely due to its ability to close transactions quickly and solve a wide range of problems inside of the “value-add spectrum” from Single Family to Multi Family to even hospitality properties. VareCo also became one of the early-stage investors in Qualified Opportunity Zones in Denver.

Outside of real estate, Terrance is passionate about his family. He and his
wife, Julie, have two young children, Emilia and Noah. Julie and Terrance
are active in their local church in addition to serving on the board of a local
organization called Activ8 All-Stars which serves local children and families
with disabilities.

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Connect with Terrance

Email: terrance.j.doyle@gmail.com

Website: https://thevareco.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrancedoyle/

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dalynhazell/

Email: dalyndhazell@gmail.com

Transcript

Dalyn: 0:20

What's up guys? Welcome back to the show. Today we're talking about value add with Terrence Doyle. Terrence is a full-time real estate investor, focused on multi-family and single-family, and he is also the host of the Bigger Pockets multi-family mentor show. He is a wealth of knowledge about value add. He even named his company Veco, which stands for Value Add Real Estate Company. He named his company after that term cuz he feels so passionate about it and I can really tell from the interview that he is passionate about value add and what that means for investors and creating wealth. And I do agree, you know, value add is one of the best ways to kind of shortcut your success in real estate. if you're willing to go in there and make the necessary repairs, make operations more efficient, you can add a lot of value to your net worth, your, your cash flow. His Company holds 350 units in his hometown, Des Moines, Iowa, but he is also expanded to other markets like Denver. So, without further ado, let's listen in on today's conversation with Terrence Doyle. Welcome to the show, Terrence. How are you doing today?

Terrance: 1:29

Kaylin? I'm doing super well. I'm excited to be with you and yeah, I've enjoyed getting to chat with you here for a few minutes and you know, love your show and yeah, really, really humbled and thankful to be here. Yeah.

Dalyn: 1:39

You got me pumped up before we got on here and a lot of cool things we're that kind of we're gonna talk about and flesh out today. But for a brief moment, just give the audience a brief synopsis of yourself and kind of what turned your brain on to real estate. Yeah,

Terrance: 1:53

so, you know, that's you know, I could talk an hour about, you know, how I got into real estate, but I think high level, what people need to know is I came from, I grew up in a very low income family in Des Moines, Iowa, Des Moines, Iowa, so, you know, central of the country and a very blue collar, hardworking. My dad did not go to college. He was from Canada, and my mom is from a country in South America called, Most of you that watched NAS would know Columbia. And so, yeah, I mean, that was my, that was my upbringing to immigrant parents. Not a lot of education, you know, not a lot of awareness about financial literacy. Right? They did not understand the ability to build wealth through real estate or cash flow or any of that. my parents were always talking about money, but in the context of the lack of money, right? So I was the child. Was very conscious about, I was always asking my friends parents, Hey, how much does your, how much does your dad make? What does he do? How much is this housework? Right? So I was always very conscious about money, what they were making, what they were doing, and you know, so that was my childhood. I was really, really passionate about basketball. I was very passionate about basketball and so I played basketball very competitively. In high school, I played on a really good high school team. Shout out to Des Moines Christian High School in Des Moines, Iowa. And then I played college basketball. I like to say that I got paid to sit on the bench and do other people's homework. I was like the, the guy that helped bring up the team, G P A in college. But nonetheless, they paid for my school. Like you got out pretty much debt. Maybe I had some things for a credit card debt and stuff like that, but so I was fortunate enough that happened. And then, you know, I started my first company in college with two of my teammates, and this was 2006 I graduated. So we started a company, we franchised it. I made a couple bucks, and then another college teammate of mine came to me in 2007. 2007, right? The economy's crashing. There's foreclosures now, and I was one of the first investors to start buying foreclosures in Denver with a couple buddies from college in Denver, Colorado, and that was my first. Exposure to real estate, and I really didn't understand it, but I just knew that we could buy properties back then for 50, 60,$70,000 we'd put in paint and carpet and we would sell'em for 90, a hundred, hundred and 10. We thought we were brilliant. We were making 20,$30,000 every 60, 90 days, and it was like, man, this is amazing. Amazing. But looking back, the people that were buying them from us and holding them and rent those houses for a thousand dollars, now we. You know, they bought'em from us for a hundred. Now they're worth half a million,$600,000 in Denver. Those were the real geniuses. And you know, so that was my first exposure to real estate. It was a great learning lesson. I didn't really understand it, but I knew that we could make money quickly buying them. Right. And then doing a light, we called it a clean and flip back then. So Dalyn, that was my first experience in real estate and that's what got me started. Thanks

Dalyn: 4:42

for sharing that. And going back to your upbringing with the imi, your parents being immigrants, I think. First of all, really awesome. And, and, and I'm sure it's humbling for you, but also I, I was reading in the book earlier and the US has the most immigrants of any country, like Right. The second place is not even close, so it's up to 44 million immigrants and Wow. I think that just shows like how Americans can be some of the hardest working people and you know the most creative people. You know, you come here and you have nothing, and then you, you can buy whatever you want. If it's saving up and, and growing a business, you could end up buying shares. Land here and businesses here, and it just speaks to the potential of this country. And so I think it's cool that you mentioned that. Talk about you know, the, they're just the Denver market itself. I know not everybody's in Denver, but. just the sheer amount of inflation that's been there. How have you all kind of handled that? You, you said you were flipping and wholesaling in the beginning, but when did it start? Like when did you start holding on to some of those assets?

Terrance: 5:40

Yeah. You know, when you're flipping properties, it's very transactional based, right? And so you're only making money when you're buying and selling properties. Mm-hmm. and I got to the point where that was a lot of work. I mean, at one point we were doing a hundred a. Between 2008 and 2014, we turned roughly 600 properties between Denver, Vegas, Florida, Indiana, and a couple other small markets. And so, you know, back then opportunities were everywhere and capital was very scarce. It was hard to find the capital. We found a couple capital partners that gave us the bandwidth and the gasoline to grow. And uh, you know, that's what we were able to do then. But it was a lot of work, a lot of transac. To end up with, you know, maybe a couple million dollars at the end of the day, you know, and so it's so much work, so much heavy lifting. And you know, so in 2014 when I branched off started my own company, which is what's known today as value add real estate Barco. And you know, I wanted to build something more scalable. You know, I wanted to have a family. I wanted to get married. I wanted to have more time. You know, I had, I was making money, but I didn't have time. I didn't have margin. And so I was like, what can I, how can I take this model and this asset in real estate to build, to create something that actually builds wealth and some cash flow that gives me more time? And that was really delight bulb moment for me. And so that was at 2014, I started thinking, okay, what if instead of buying one house and managing 20 different projects around the city of Denver, what if I had one property with 20. And I could just manage one project, right? And then I started to learn about cap roots, and I realized that every a hundred dollars I could raise rent a month. Every a hundred dollars I could raise rent a month was worth about$20,000 per door at a six cap. So very back of the nap. And you know, math is not my strength, right? But I could do that kind of math. So I would go into a property, it was a fourplex or an eight plex or a 20 unit, and I would say, Hey, what are the rents now? And what can they be? When I do the same thing I did on the flip, I do some paint, I do some flooring, some cabinets, countertops, some tile, you know, clean it up a little bit, give it some new life, and what could reds be then? So then I started buying properties where the reds were 500, but after I would do a light remodel, they were a. So$500 a month at 20,000, I could make a hundred thousand dollars per door. And then I was like, okay, how many doors can I buy? Right? It was very simple and you know, this was just when. It was starting to get more competitive. So I started to really focus on building relationships and how can I align interest? How can I, like my hat says, how can I create disproportionate value for the broker, the person bring the wholesaler or the lender bringing me the deal so that they always wanna bring me the deal, right? And started, my mind started to think about, okay, now capital was everywhere, but deals were hard to come by, right? And so how could I build relationships and align interest so people would always bring me.

Dalyn: 8:24

Exactly, and, and, and you, and you're right, you latched onto this idea of value in creating value in your relationships and in the asset themselves. So that that word value add is tossed around so much. What does that really mean in the real estate space and, and why is it so important?

Terrance: 8:40

Yeah, you're right. If you look at OMS Opry memorandums from broker, Any market, everything says value add. This is a value add deal, right? I mean, it's so cheap everyone's saying it. Right? And, and for us, what value add means is can we drive, can we force appreciation through construction and property management can through construction, through doing construction the right way, in a systematic organized process driven format, can we improve the property? To drive rents and through property management can be lower expenses and drive noi. Right? And that's value. So that value is being created for ourselves and our investors and it's disproportionate risk adjusted value because we're buying something at below market value that's off market and we're able to increase it. Force the appreciation, right? We're not just sitting back on our know with our hands in our pocket waiting for the market to go up. Right. That's just Pope Now it's worked out the last four or five years. Right. But we're trying to force appreciation regardless of what interest rates or cap rates are. Drive, drive the value by construction and property management.

Dalyn: 9:42

Gotcha. Yeah. Good answer there. And so when you, when it came time for you to, you know, you got your head on straight, you, you're like, I'm tired of making all these other people wealthy who were the real geniuses back in 2014. Did you jump into holding single family rentals? Were you just jumping right into multi-family? Talk about that transition.

Terrance: 10:02

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That transition was hard. You know, when people know you as someone that does single family, trying to go to a different set of brokers and a different set of lenders and say, you know, now I want to go from buying single family. I wanna go buy 20, 30, 40, 50 unit apartment buildings. Will you give me money? Will you lend to me? Right. That was a difficult conversation. Going to brokers and saying, Hey, I know you don't know me and I know you don't know. I have a track. I don't have a track record in the space, but next time you find a deal, will you send it to. Those were difficult conversations, so I had to really build trust with brokers and lenders to be able to transition. Those are difficult things, you know, I think perseverance. I think relationships, I think just doing the fundamental things of showing up on time and doing what you say you're gonna do. If someone says, Hey, send me your track record. Send me a pre-approval letter. Send me your liquidity statement, you know, all these things. Having them ironed out, knowing exactly what you're looking for, being realistic, knowing the market, you know, these are things that you. Overcome the challenges of inexperience or not having a track record, right? Those, those kind of fundamental things. And so that was difficult. It took me a couple years to really get the hang of that. And you know, so I, I started out, you know, single family that I transitioned to doing fourplexes, eight plexes, 10 unit buildings. And I was also in Des Moines, Iowa buying. Foreclosures at the public trustee sale in Des Moines, right? Des Moines lagged behind Denver a few years. So I was able to start buying houses there for 20, 30, 40,$50,000. And I was then renting them for a thousand, just like what I saw people do in Denver back in 2008. So then I started to do that strategy. So we hold, we still hold a single family portfolio. I love the single family space. You know, for me, you know, we have a company now of 35 employees and a lot of overhead, and so single family, it's harder to scale. You saw Zillow, you know, just got outta the single family space. I mean, a lot of institutions have lost a lot of money because of not understanding how hard it is to manage construction and properties. Across the country, long distance, it's very, very, very difficult. And so the reason I love multi-family is you can scale and it allows you to manage construction and property management much more efficiently. And so that's what you know. So that's what we're focused on now, is just buying multi-family value add, which means, you know, we're not gonna be the highest bidder, we're buying from people that are motivated by time and, and the convenience. Of a transaction, right? We can offer that. We can underwrite very quickly, we can close quickly, we can close with cash. We have lenders that are able to close within 21 days, and so that's our ticket to buying value right now, is being able to be very patient and have deep relationships in the market.

Dalyn: 12:31

Yes, yes. And, and you're spot on about multi-family and the scale, because sometimes you'll, you'll buy a building and it comes with three, six employees. Like that's what I've heard through on podcasts and, and books. Mm-hmm. that, that, it just gets a lot easier at that point because sometimes, you know, it comes with. Management in place, or it comes with employees that are already in place and it's just like, sometimes you don't even know if they don't, they don't even know if ownership has changed, you know? That's right. And so that's what comes with that. So talk about let's talk about deal size because I, I, I was listening to a podcast between Grant Cardone and Robert Kiosaki, two big giants in the space. Right. They, it was kind of funny cuz they were butting heads about how to get started, you know? Do you grant was saying start off with 500 units and partnering with somebody. You know, first deal in your career and then Robert's like, no, start with the house and then buy a duplex then. So what is your take on that controversial topic?

Terrance: 13:26

Yeah, those guys are both giants ultra successful. You know what's interesting, and I think what the audience needs to understand is there's no right way. It's whatever's right for you. Right? And so, you know, there could be someone out in the audience. It's like, yeah, I mean, I have the ability to go do a hundred unit building. I don't need to start with a single family or fourplex like Terrence did or Gayland did. I can just go straight to a hundred because maybe they have a different set of skillset. Or relationships. You know, everyone has, everyone's been given different skills and opportunities and they need to play. They hand their dealt. But for me in my career, if I wouldn't have started with single family and small multi-family, I wouldn't be where I'm at. And I started with my own capital. And that's the best way to learn, right? It's the best way to learn because no one's going to care more than you about your money. And so you're gonna learn to figure it out. If you have 50 or a hundred thousand dollars of your own money into a single family home, you're gonna figure out how to get a. You're gonna figure out how to do maintenance the right way. You're going to figure out how to get a refinance and that's the best way to learn. And so that's how I learned, right? And that's is by failure, by learning with my own capital, right? I learned that third party property management is very, very difficult and it's hard to align interest with third party property managers. I learned how to structure things the right way with contractors and themselves by losing a lot of money with different, with different construction projects and different subs. And, and by. Documenting things, having things in writing and and doing certain nuance that, you know, along the construction schedule. And so all those things were learned the hard way. That's what's allowed me to go and buy a hundred, 200, 300 unit buildings now. But I had to learn the fundamentals and I had to learn through cutting my teeth with smaller properties. And then I've been able to do larger deals. And now that I have the skillset and the experie. and you know, I control the, you know, entire process in-house. Now I can go focus on larger deals, you know, now I can do a 500 unit deal, but I couldn't do that three or four years ago when I was just learning the process and the systems. And so I do agree with Robert in that scenario, and that's what's helped me in my career. But there are people that can do it. Go straight to that, you know, I know people. You know, in Denver right now, they've gone straight to a hundred unit deals. They skipped that whole, you know, the whole timeline. And so I just think it's, it's based on the person's strengths and their skillset and the time and, and the risk they're willing to take. You know, for me, I didn't want to take that risk. I wanted to learn with my own capital before I went out and raise capital from other people to go do larger deals. I wanted to be able to look like, look someone in the eye like you and say, Hey, Dalen, I did this with my own capital and I've did it a hundred. And now I'm gonna start taking outside capital to go do it at scale. But I had to, you know, but I wanted to have that confidence and that experience and that track record to be able to sit down in front of someone and say that with integrity. Yeah. And,

Dalyn: 15:58

and that's the reason, that's one of the main reasons I love real estate. It's almost like a revolving door where as Terrence gets big and he, he wants to divest some of his single families. That allows the newer investor to get started and it's just like you're always trading up into new asset classes and allowing the next generation of investors to, to gobble up what, what you sold. So another reason to love real estate. Talk about deal finding deal sourcing, because back in, you know, the recession, you were doing foreclosure homes and there were, they were a dime a dozen. And, and now, not so often. So talk about how, how your deal flow has morphed cuz you have to be doing a lot of deal analysis and deal flow at your level.

Terrance: 16:35

Yeah. You know, in the last, back in the day, you know, I would underwrite everything myself right on the back of an napkin. What are the rents now? What can they be after construction? And I'd go walk a couple of apartment billions in the neighborhood and say, oh yeah, I can get nine 50 for this. It's 400 now. That deal makes sense. You know? So back in the day, that was the underwriting. I would just do it myself and I could only do maybe three or four projects at a time. And today, you know, we're doing, we have 15 active sites, active, active projects going on right now in Denver and Des Moines. 15. Right. So, but that takes a team and we're probably underwriting 10 to 15 deals a. But I have a full-time person and all they do is underwrite. All they do is underwrite. They're sitting there. We have a model that we built ourselves, and they're going through and saying, okay, here are the rents. Here's, here's the rents. Now here's their T 12. Here's what the expenses are. Here's what ours is gonna look like. Here's what rents will look like after construction. Here's the kind of debt we know we can get. And so all these are nuanced things, and everyone has a different set of criteria, right? And so everyone needs to have their own underwriting and uh, because everyone's looking for different things, right? Everyone, everyone's at a different stage in life and different stage in their career has, has different goals for themselves and their investors. And so, you know, we've been able to put that into a spreadsheet and, and that's our filter, right? And so we're just plugging everything into that spreadsheet and saying, Hey, does this deal make sense? Does this deal make sense? And we're only looking in two markets, right? Two markets. One asset class, multi-family, and yeah. So it's, it's a very intense process we can't miss, right? We have other people, my capital, my family's capital, and investors capital, so we have no margin for air, right? We have to make sure that everything is dialed in. And I think the key word for everyone to understand right now, where debts really cheap, there's a ton of money flooding into every market in this asset class, whether it be single family or multi-family, is you gotta be. You gotta be patient right now is because there's a lot of competition. Prices are up and you gotta wait for the right deal. You gotta wait for the deal just right down the middle of the strike zone for you in what you do well. And so I think a lot of people can get discouraged seeing all these, you know, on social media doing a bunch of deals and doing a high volume of deals. And it's like, man, how come I'm not doing deals? And the key is patie. Patients is, you know, you could go a year without doing a deal, and that's fine. Just waiting for the right deal to fits your criteria, that's gonna help you accomplish your goals, to be financially free and to build well. Sure, sure.

Dalyn: 18:46

But Terrence, I mean, I'm talking, those are all good remarks. I'm talking about how to get leads in the door because I've shared with my audience, you know I do thoughtful direct mail handwritten campaigns, and that's works incredibly well in the single family space. So what, what does it look like at scale to, to get leads in the door so that you can pop'em into your spreadsheet and start.

Terrance: 19:05

Cool. So what, what I've been able to do is just add value to brokers throughout the process, right? And so everything we do is either from lenders, title or brokers, right through those three majority, 80 or 90% of the deals come through brokers. And, you know, what's, what I've done is I'm, I'm very specific with what I'm looking for, right? So number one, I'm very specific. I know what I'm looking for and it's really, we need to be able to drive 25. We need to be able to increase rents 25% after cons. It's number one. Number two, that's gotta be in a core neighborhood that we are familiar with, right? Mm-hmm. So Denver, there's probably four or five neighborhoods. Des Moines, there's three or four. So I'm very specific about, you know, what I'm looking for in terms of return and the location, right? And then I'm doing, and then I'm letting them know, Hey, I've got the capital, here's the capital I have ready to go. I'm either in a 10 31 or I have a fund or whatever. I've got the money ready to go and I'm pre. I'm looking at two markets. Here's my underwriting, here is the timing right. I'm ready to go right now. If you send me a deal in an hour, I'm ready to go. And I think one of the things I understand is brokers are paid on commission. They're not salary, and so they only have a certain number of hours in a day, and there's only certain opportunities that make sense that are really. Under market and, and there's real value add, and you can drive value through construction and property manage. There's maybe only per broker, maybe they come across five of those a year. Right. And so for that broker to call me, it's a big leave up. They, they have to know that I can close, they have to know I have the capital, they have to know what I'm ready to go and I know what I'm looking for. And then, and then I have to be able to communicate in a time with fashion, right? Typically within 24 hours of us receiving an email, we're communicating, Hey, here's what works, here's what doesn't work. Communication, even if it's a no, just letting them know so they can move on and send it to someone else that it might work for. So those are the four or five things that you know have worked for me to be able to build relationships, strength and trust, and align interest. Cuz they know that if I buy a deal, right, I buy a deal. It's gonna be a convenient process for them. And I'm gonna close. We always close if it's at the number that we needed at, we close. And you know, so I think building that reputation, building that track record, building that rapport, communicating those things. We know what we're looking for. We know the location, we're ready to go. We're preapproved. We have the money, and we're only looking in these areas. Right? When people go wrong with brokers, it's because they don't have the money. They're not preapproved. They don't know what they're looking for, and they don't know the location. And so brokers basically like, well, why am I gonna spend time with this guy? He know. They know what he's looking for. He's gonna be spinning his wheels. You have to be able to clearly identify and communicate those five things to a broker for them to be motivated to pick up the phone and go work for you. So then they know they can get.

Dalyn: 21:35

Yes. And that transitions very well into the single family as well, because when I'm wholesaling a deal, like I will call, specifically call the buyer that I trust the most, that will close. They've never not closed. They've never, the check has never not been there. And they get the deals before everyone else. That's kind of like maybe I'll look at it next week, or will you take this? So yeah, the reputation's key. And for brokers especially because their name's on the line much more than a single. Real estate agent. That's, that's fair. It's ultra important for them that, that their buyer closes. Let's wrap up. Let's talk about these are the last three questions I ask each guest. It's called the triple threat, and, the first one is, what is the app resource or tool that has been the biggest game changer for your business?

Terrance: 22:17

I'm kind of old school daylen, you know, you can probably teach me something about you know, technology, you know? Yeah. For us, I mean, I would say if you think about social media, like LinkedIn has been great, you know? Yeah. We've done a lot of stuff. We document the process on LinkedIn or Instagram, right? We're talking about the deals we're doing. We're talking about the cultural ability, we're talking about the way we're hiring people. I mean, we're consistently just documenting and, you know, publishing that content to tell a story, right? So then when people think about multi-family, they think about Terrence Doyle and value. The value add real estate company in Denver. Right. And so, you know, LinkedIn has been great for us. You know, we, we also use, you know, discord. You know, that's been really good for us in terms of like building a community. You know, we have a mastermind that's coming out. We're gonna be using Discord, you know, so I would say those two things, but I'm really old school and it's about relationships. For me, it's about relationships. It's about documenting the process and that those have been the, you know, really the keys in the in the pillars to our company and, and

23:08

what

Terrance: 23:08

we've. LinkedIn I haven't heard an investor say that before, but I'm sure it gets much more important as in the higher unit count. Is that correct? LinkedIn gets more important? Yeah. I mean, lenders are reaching out to me. Like, let's say I publish a, a post or a video about a a 200 unit building that I just bought, right? And I'm talking about, I'm just posting pictures. I'm talking about the process, how we got it. So now lenders in that space are reaching out to me saying, Hey, Give us a chance for the next one, right? Or brokers are seeing that and they're like, Hey, we have a deal similar to that, right? Or investors are saying, Hey, we're looking for an asset like that. And so just by documenting the process, it gets people's antennas up of like, Hey, here's what parents. Doing, let's reach out to'em. And so it's just, I mean, that's like a layup, right? It's just you're doing a deal, wholesale deal. If you post it up on LinkedIn, people are, or Instagram or Twitter people that are in that business that are looking for those kind deals are gonna reach out and say, Hey, Delan, that deal would work for me. Send me the next one.

Dalyn: 23:59

Question two, what has been the biggest failure in the last year, and why do you think that happened?

Terrance: 24:04

Now, I've had so many, you know, we could do a whole, we could do a whole episode on failures. You know, I think one of, one of the failures that comes to mind is just, you know, hiring the wrong people. Right? We're at this point in my career, you know, for us to scale and go to the next level, we, I need people. I need really, really talented, driven people. And so, you know, one of the things that we've helped to filter the people, just create a very defined culture, right? What is the culture to work here? If you walk in the door of our company, what are the things that separate us and define us? So that way, if it's not you, you stick out like a sore thumb, right? And so, one of a, for us, it's, are you scrappy? Are you humble? Are you team oriented? Are you. About a family, right? You know, these are the things that define someone that's gonna be a Barco employee. And so, you know, we've had a lot of failures with people, right? There's been, there was someone that we hired this summer that was here for 48 hours, and then she was like, I can't work here anymore. Right? We had someone else here that was here for a week and was like, this isn't for me. Right? So it's happened time and time again where we've hired the wrong people. And so we're constantly refining our process of how do we improve the questions and the process by which. we identify the right people.

Dalyn: 25:08

Question three. Our podcast is all all about helping others achieve freedom with real estate investing, whether that's financial, lifestyle or otherwise. So what does freedom mean specifically to you?

Terrance: 25:19

That's a great question. You know, freedom is you can wake up and do what you're passionate about. That's freedom. You know, and I think freedom is a byproduct of discipl. Most people don't understand that they want freedom, but they're not willing to put in the discipline it takes to create the freedom, right? And so you think about our country, why are we, why are we freedom, right? Someone had to fight for that. Someone had to be disciplined enough to go through that to say, Hey, I want this for this. And so, you know, freedom's a byproduct of discipline. You have to be willing to put in the work to be disciplined with your routine, with the routines you do, with the choices you make every day. Like discipline is not. But freedom is amazing, right? And so I think those are things that, you know, I think about a lot is, you know, if I have the right routines and I'm disciplined right, in my routine and in my decision making, then that's gonna create disproportionate freedom for me and people in our company. But discipline is not fun and freedom's not cheap, right? And so all those things, while it's fun, it's not, it's not easy. And so, you know, I think it just mean being able to do the things you're passionate about on a daily.

Dalyn: 26:18

And it sounds like you're doing just that, Terrence. So where can listeners get ahold of you to learn?

Terrance: 26:23

Hey, you we're pretty active on social media ter at Terrence Doyle on Instagram at Terrence Doyle on LinkedIn. You know, our website is vco.com. You can learn about the things that we're doing and yeah, I mean, I'd love for listeners to reach out. They can ask questions. We have a show called The Tribal Multi-Family Mentors on Bigger Pockets. We're constantly interviewing people from around the country. They fly into Denver. It's live, and we're talking about all things real estate, multi-family, and the same thing, how to build freedom, how to build wealth through real.

Dalyn: 26:51

All right, Terrence, thanks for your time today and adding such value to our listeners.

Terrance: 26:54

Hey, thanks for having me. I'm a big fan of what you're doing. Keep up the good work, man.

Fiverr Guy: 26:58

Thank you for listening to the Real Estate Investing for Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave us a review. And tune in next week for the next episode.