Flipping Houses to Invest in Multifamily Real Estate | Josh Gorokhovsky

In this episode, Dalyn Hazell sits down with Josh Gorokhovsky to discuss the ins and outs of flipping, finding deals, wholesaling and long-term residual income.

A Los Angeles native, Josh graduated from the University of Southern California in 2015 earning his Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration with an emphasis in Real Estate Finance and Entrepreneurship. Since 2015, while still in school and while building up Telos Properties, Josh worked under L.A. Properties Inc. principal, Scott Rosenfeld, where he managed acquisitions, development, and redevelopment projects exceeding $10,000,000. Josh has placed more than $13,000,000 in equity for investors and managed over $22,000,000 worth of real estate transactions since 2017. He intends on leading the company and acquiring, as well as developing, a slew of multifamily properties in the coming decades for the company portfolio through personal funds as well as partnerships with a range of clients: From institutional investment firms, high-net-worth individuals, and family trusts.

Key takeaways from this episode:

•  What is ground-up real estate development.
•  Purchasing single-family and converting the land into a multifamily property.
•  What acquisition phase looks like in Los Angeles.
•  The process of development and flipping homes.
•  Grassroots marketing and the most effective strategy in the market.
•  Selling smaller deals to roll into larger deals.
•  Strategy for analyzing deals on development.
•  ARV or after repair value.
•  Getting out on analysis paralysis and finding your niche in real estate.
•  Learning vs. Earning and how has that manifested in business.

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Connect with Guest, Josh Gorokhovsky:

Website: www.telosproperties.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshgorok

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshgorok/

Email: josh@telosproperties.com

Connect with the Host, Dalyn Hazell:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dalyn.hazell/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dhazell24/

Email: dalyndhazell@gmail.com

Transcript

Introduction  0:00  

This is the real estate investing for freedom Podcast, where we bring on the experts to teach you the golden nuggets of real estate investing, so you can escape the rat race and start living life on your terms. Now, here's your host Dalyn Hazell.

Dalyn Hazell  0:22  

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the podcast today I interviewed Josh and we talked all about flipping, finding deals, some wholesaling and what he's doing today to pour his money into for that long-term residual income that most of us on here are looking for. So before all that though, here's today's golden nugget of the day. Today's Golden Nugget is to make sure you don't under rehab a property or over rehab, a property, a good flipper or rehabber, is not the person that makes the prettiest home or spends the most on renovations. A good flipper knows exactly what to improve, and how much to spend on improvements to get the maximum value out of the home. Whether that's he's going to refinance it, whether he or she is going to sell it to an owner-occupant, you want to make sure that you are not over rehabbing or under rehabbing. So you look at neighborhood comps, you know, flip comps in that area, what kind of finishes it has. And then you build your budget, your scope of work, and assemble your team accordingly, according to that budget and that scope of work. So don't get caught on either of those two extremes, make sure you're walking that fine line between under rehabbing and over rehabbing. So today's guest I think you're gonna enjoy it. He is a wonderful wealth of information. And he's all about thinking long term, and not just short term. And that's what I like about Josh. So here we go. Welcome to the show. Josh. How are you doing? 

Josh Gorokhovsky  2:02

I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on. How are you doing? 

Dalyn Hazell  2:04

You bet I'm doing fantastic. Can you give the audience a short introduction about yourself? And what do you do in real estate?

Josh Gorokhovsky  2:12  

Yeah, Joshua Gorokhovsky. Here in Los Angeles, and I primarily do ground up real estate development, I do a little bit of single-family and smaller multifamily flipping as well. I started my company four and a half years ago, and have been doing it full time ever since. And slowly building up my development and rental portfolio here in Los Angeles.

Dalyn Hazell  2:39  

Perfect. Yeah, you're, you're not the first person on the podcast that I've had from Los Angeles. Sure. It's a very hot market, a unique market out there. Can you talk about what you mean by development? I mean, are you the way I picture it is you're literally taking the land, and then you're building on it? Is that a fair assumption? Or what does that mean development?

Josh Gorokhovsky  2:59  

Yeah, for the most part, for most of the projects that I've been doing, I've been purchasing single-family homes that are on lots that are zoned for more units. So you know, they'll end up usually being houses that are in pretty crummy condition. So we end up just demolishing them entirely. And then using the lot for duplex triplex or fourPlex developments, which will build literally from the foundation up.

Dalyn Hazell  3:26  

Wow, that's an interesting strategy. You know, a lot of people just take existing stuff and make it good again, but you're actually sometimes tearing the existing building down and starting from scratch. How do you think that helps you in terms of I mean, I know it's probably more expensive to go through that process. But do you think you have a higher like, profit potential exit strategy? Because you're doing everything new?

Josh Gorokhovsky  3:49  

Um, no, I mean, it really depends, right? Like how you're gonna analyze your projects, I have several friends in the industry that, you know, most of what they do is flipping and when you look on it, when you look at it from an annualized cash on cash return, they're probably manufacturing a better return doing that because they're in and out very quickly. So even though their dollars are maybe less, they're, they're churning much faster. For me, I know that long-term development is where I want to be. I don't know if I'm going to stay in this, you know, smaller multifamily space forever. Maybe I'll get into some larger multifamily developments in the future. And most of the stuff that I end up building I want to keep for myself for the company's portfolio. So that's the reason that I'm doing it. Obviously, also doing it for profitability, not doing it because I, you know, love the materials so much in the process of it, which I do, but it's more obviously for profitability. But that's, that's why I'm doing it's more of a long-term view. 

Dalyn Hazell  4:54  

Absolutely. Well, today's show is all about development and flipping Holmes, which I know you have experienced in that. So I'm just curious, I explained it at a high level, your process, I mean, from acquisition finding the deal to analyzing it to managing the job. I mean, I know it's a tall task, and we'll unpack that at each step. But let's first zone in on finding the deal. You're in a hot market. So you're looking for very distressed properties. That sounds like what that acquisition phase looks like for you?

Josh Gorokhovsky  5:29  

Yeah, I mean, Los Angeles is an insane market. I'm sure there's a lot of markets like that right now. But I mean, specifically this year, it's been absolutely bananas. Yeah, most of my acquisitions will come from one of two routes, which is either relationship with brokers and agents, or some of the deals I've been able to source myself, just neighbors of job sites, some grassroots marketing, mailers, letters, door knocking, stuff like that. So whenever I get an opportunity, yes, it does end up being usually a distressed home, sometimes it's not a distressed home, sometimes it's somebody just marketing, you know, a house thinking that it's worth x, when really, when you look at it, for what the land is worth for what you can build there, it may be worth why. So that's happened as well. But yeah, I mean, I'm finding these lots, I'm analyzing them based on the zoning of the lot and the size of a lot, you know, what we can put on there, two units, three units, four units. Now in Los Angeles, I don't know, in other markets if, if this is becoming a thing, but in Los Angeles, there's now ad use additional dwelling units, which have been allowed to be put onto properties since 2017. And now with multifamily, they allow you to do that as well. So now, there's an extra component that you have to analyze, and see if you can squeeze on there. But yeah, I mean, we're figuring out based on our price per foot, building wise, what we know what the entire project cost will be and what it's going to be worth on the back end. And then like I said, most of these projects, I would like to keep, if possible, so you know what the refi looks like, at the end of the project versus a sale. And then the rents will be collected, so on and so forth. And if I can get to a nowadays it's a little bit lower, but let's say a 12 to 20% return, then, most of the time, we'll end up pushing forward to doing the deal.

Dalyn Hazell  7:30  

Yeah, 12 to 20% is a good return for that. So when you're hunting for these deals are you mainly looking for, like you said, houses that you can just like tear down, or, because in my market, like, if I come across a lead, and they're just trying to sell the land, I'm like, that's not attractive to me, I want to have a house that's already there. You know, I don't want a vacant city lot on the rough side of town, like that's worth a couple 1000 bucks for me. But for you, it may be a goldmine. So explain how, what that looks like, if you come across a lead, that's just like, a vacant city lot, or just a total tear down?

Josh Gorokhovsky  8:10  

Yeah, I mean, it just I think it really boils down to my competition a lot, right. So if if it's just a vacant lot, then it's going to be all other developers looking at it with the same eye that I'm looking at it with mostly most of the time, you know, so then it's just going to be a bidding war, unless it's some kind of large lot where you can do some, you know, larger, multi storey, multifamily building, which I don't do so then, you know, might be priced out of my range. But as far as the single family homes, yeah, I mean, I could be competing against somebody who is either an end user, you know, if it's not too terrible of a shape, even if the lot is for me, like, you know, there may be an end user who'll be maybe romantic about it, and be willing to pay more than I can, when I'm looking at the profitability of it. I may be looking at flippers, you know, like, like yourself and others that don't care about what the land is zoned, they're just, they're just going to do a quick rehab in and out. So they also may be willing to pay a little bit more than me. And then, you know, there may be other developers like me, who are just looking at the lot. So with those, as opposed to vacant land, I think there's a lot more eyes on it. And it's, it's about, you know, what the end values gonna end up being and who's willing to pay more for it. So it is different, but it's just, you know, over the years, putting in the time looking at so many deals that you can kind of look at these various properties, whether it's a vacant lot or not, and, and, and figuring out what you can do there.

Dalyn Hazell  9:44  

Yeah, there's a term in real estate highest and best use and I'm sure you use that to determine what's the best purpose for this land that you have. So you said you do grassroots marketing you know, you're on the you're on the ground, doing direct mail or hold Calling or door knocking? What has been the most effective strategy for that? And the super hot market that you're in right now? The grassroots specifically? Yeah, like what's yielded the biggest return in such a competitive market there.

Josh Gorokhovsky  10:15  

It’s really door knocking. You know, the cold calling? Actually no, I take that back . I've purchased one deal off cold calling. Cold calling absolutely works, I come from a sales background. So I know cold calling works. But specifically with me, the strategy that's worked the most is door knocking just being face to face with the homeowner showing them that you're a real person. And you know that if you have some developments in the area that helps I kind of, you know, mentioned some certain streets, and maybe they've seen the development or driven by walk by. So that's what's worked the best for me, it's just so time consuming. I was able to do it a lot more in the beginning when I didn't have several projects to manage and properties to manage. And now it's very, very difficult to find time to do that. But in my experience that has yielded the most deals.

Dalyn Hazell  11:10  

Yeah. And eventually you probably hire somebody to do that for you as well. You know, have you kind of explored that avenue?

Josh Gorokhovsky  11:17  

Yeah, I've been considering it more and more as my time keeps dwindling down. And so now Yeah, I'm considering hiring an assistant. I might hire somebody to do the door knocking, maybe on the weekends or part time. So I probably will start exploring that more and more towards the end of the year.

Dalyn Hazell  11:35  

Sure. Well, I know most people probably listening to this are really not interested in development right now. Because it's probably not, it's not really an entry level strategy, is it?

Josh Gorokhovsky  11:46  

You know, it depends. I didn't come into the game. Knowing that I was going to do that I kind of just stumbled upon it. I've mentioned in other podcasts, I have a mentor of mine who owns several multifamily properties here in Los Angeles, and he's been developing, so I kind of stumbled into it through him. But no, I wouldn't say it's, you know, very common for people to come into it as a novice and just start developing ground up. I will say, though, that my argument against that is, I didn't have a construction I as I'm sure most people don't when they start. And for me, it was way more daunting to walk into a property and try to figure out my budget, when I didn't understand one, what kind of scope of work I needed, to what, you know, materials costs, and there were just so many components I didn't really understand. Whereas with new construction, I kind of knew off a set of plans exactly what I needed. You know what I mean? So that was my argument against it. But yeah, it's a little more a little more entailed, a little more difficult of a process.

Dalyn Hazell  12:53  

Yeah. So but I think what we're talking about today will apply to somebody just getting started flipping or, yep. And that's kind of what this is geared towards. So for that person just getting started, like, how do they develop that construction? I like you mentioned, should they walk through their first few properties of the contractor? Should they, you know, any resources on that, that they should look into?

Josh Gorokhovsky  13:15  

Um, yeah, I mean, for me, it was just going through it, every single project, I learned more and more and went through inspections, you know, the inspectors not passing you and telling you what you did wrong. And, you know, making certain mistakes that, for me, at least haven't been fatal yet. So those little mistakes really are the best teachers. When I first got started on my very first clip, I actually didn't run the project myself, I was working with two guys who had experience. And I had an agreement with them that if I found a project that they would be running the project and help put together the capital, and that I would have a small equity split, but really, I was just going to fit in wherever I could get it and help however I can, but they were going to run the show. So maybe that's not what everybody wants to hear. But for me, like I said, I didn't have the capital resources. So for me, that was a way where I could still make some money on the deal, but still be involved rather than wholesaling it. So I was involved in that deal. I learned a tremendous amount from that first project. And that gave me just enough confidence to do the second project on my own. So that's one way of doing it.

Dalyn Hazell  14:35  

Yeah, I mean, I think wholesaling can help you develop, you know, your construction AI but really, you're not going to master it until you get in there and actually take on a project yourself and start over seeing things and developing your scope of work for sure. So how do you decide what to keep or what because you said, your main goal obviously is to build a portfolio for the long term wealth. So what to keep or flip,

Josh Gorokhovsky  15:04  

I try to keep everything unless it's a single family house, you know, I'm going in with the intention of flipping it, ones that I'm not demolishing and building units on the ones that I'm, you know, remodeling, those I'm, I'm flipping. But as far as the units, you know, those I've tried to keep everything I've sold, I've sold one fourPlex that I built, just because I raised money from a group of investors, and they all want it to sell from the get go. So I started that project with the intention of selling, but, but every single flip single family house, I will end up selling to generate more capital to move to the next project.

Dalyn Hazell  15:42  

Okay, so you're trying to sell those smaller deals, to roll them into larger deals, that makes a lot of sense. What is your go to strategy for analyzing deals? Because, as we know, as investors, it's all about the numbers. And so how do you analyze the deal on a development when you're literally taking everything from the ground up,

Josh Gorokhovsky  16:05  

I have a general, you know, price per foot that I'm building at now, with materials costing more than this past year. I've had to change that number slightly, and it obviously hasn't been perfect. I've been, you know, adjusting that number as I'm going through current projects right now. But when I'm when I'm analyzing, I'm punching, you know, obviously, what we're buying it for, and, and any closing costs, I'm putting in our entire construction budget, whether we're borrowing money for the construction or not, I've had the luxury of being able to build some projects entirely out of cash and not spend any money on on any construction loans. And so factoring that into the equation, whether there's any debt or not. And then like I said, I mean, looking at comps, figuring out what these multifamily buildings are trading for on the market. And even though they're technically considered residential, I'm still looking at cap rates, I'm still looking at the rental income that these other properties are generating and factoring that into the end value of what it might be worth. And I have a pretty good relationship with an institutional lender that's doing all my cash out, revise. So I already kind of know what rate I'm going to get and what LTV I'm going to be at once the project is over. And then like I said, I mean I'm punching, I have a pro forma that I've built over the years, just you know, nothing super fancy, just over Excel. And over the years, it started super ugly, then it got a little prettier and prettier over time. So I try to do everything as computer-like as possible. I don't want to spend a tremendous amount of time analyzing every deal, otherwise, I wouldn't have time to do anything else. So you know, I built this, this template where I'm just punching in all these numbers. And then if everything looks good from a bird's eye view, then I'll dive deeper into all the nitty gritty details.

Dalyn Hazell  17:59  

Yeah, and I think you have a unique advantage, you know, you know exactly what it costs to maybe not exactly, but you know what it costs to build, whereas somebody who's rehabbing a house that's not experienced, it might be 35 a square foot and might be a 55 square foot based on unforeseen things. So that's why I like to get inspections on anything I'm gonna keep just because I want to know what a good rehab costs will be. And then I obviously get multiple bids, because I just don't want to get caught in the, you know, analysis phase where I underestimated rehabs. A big thing that you could get stuck on is underestimating rehab. And then also Can you talk about ARV so after repair value? Because one trap is to underestimate rehab. The other trap is to overestimate your ARV? Are you strictly going off sold comps? Or are you like, Well, I think it'll be worth 5% more in three months? Like are you doing that kind of thing like speculative or are you strictly going off sold comps.

Josh Gorokhovsky  19:05  

I am 95% of the time gonna be on the conservative end of things. If things have traded for this amount of money, I'm going to say that that's you know, assuming everything is also the same. I'm gonna assume that's where I'm going to trade out. I'm most of the time not going to say, Oh, you know, they got this, therefore the market is going to keep ascending and now I'm going to get 510 percent more. I will say though now specifically in Los Angeles, the supply has been so compressed, that demand is just through the roof, and people are paying these crazy numbers for finished products. It's hard to see that happening over the past six months and not say, okay, you know, I probably will get a little bit more than this comp. But I tried to steer clear of that if possible. Given the fact that it is, it's becoming harder and harder to find deals right now. I am guilty of doing that and a few deals. But I tried to be conservative.

Dalyn Hazell  20:05  

Yeah, it's hard not to stretch the numbers in this market and kind of waver from the tried and true, like, rules of thumb, because you're like, yeah, it could be worth this much more, though. And I could, I know, I could get this, but

Josh Gorokhovsky  20:18  

it's hard and you're being romantic about it. Because you know, you're putting so much time and effort into this and you want to do deals, and it's hard to not romanticize and persuade yourself to do the deal.

Dalyn Hazell  20:31  

Hmm. Yeah. And especially if you want that next deal so bad, and the sellers, that, you know, their expectations go up and up, because they know the markets are hot too. So you want to give them the best offer. So yeah, we're kind of crunched on both sides. But we have to stay true to the fundamentals and not romanticize about it. Like you said, Yep. So another thing I want to talk about is how you chose this niche? How can others, myself included, get out of the analysis paralysis phase and find their niche because I struggled with this for a while. And now I've settled down into a niche, but how did you kind of cut through that noise and find your niche in real estate?

Josh Gorokhovsky  21:15  

Everybody, you know, obviously, like you said, has their own path and, and will figure out what works best for them and what they're most interested in. For me, when I first got into real estate, I was just pretty black and white about it. You know, I didn't know where retail was going to go. You know, the warehouse and industrial space, I wasn't so interested in that. And then obviously, there are several other asset classes in real estate. But one thing that I was just very frank about was, everybody's always gonna need a place to live, you know, no matter what. So for me, that was the very first thing that I decided on was I'm going to go into multifamily or residential, because people always need a place to live. So that was my first step. And then like I said, a little bit earlier, I was introduced to my now mentor at the time when I was getting started, and he is in the multifamily space here in Los Angeles. So that was the path of least resistance for me, I had somebody who was willing to teach me and was already very successful, and accumulated 25 years of knowledge in space. So for me, it was a pretty easy decision to, you know, get into this specific asset class in a niche.

Dalyn Hazell  22:35  

Yeah, so you had that mentor that kind of helped you. And then obviously, your own likes and dislikes. I don't like this, but I do like this. And then it finally settled on your strategy right now. Why do you think having a mentor is important for four reasons like that they help you like, clarity and focus?

Josh Gorokhovsky  22:54  

Yeah, I mean, the obvious is, is the knowledge, you know, if you have somebody that's experienced and been through it, you can learn from their mistakes, they've already kind of pave their own path and, and learn certain things made certain mistakes that you don't have to make or that you can learn from. So that's first and foremost. I mean, there's just little nuances on the day to day, whether it's analyzing a deal, or going through escrow, or construction, and, you know, certain rules and regulations, dealing with attorneys and operating agreements. I mean, there's all these little things, insurance, there's all the little things that, you know, you obviously learn as you go through it, whether you make a mistake or not, you'll just learn by going through it. But if you have somebody that's already been doing it, you know, you have the luxury of not having to.

Dalyn Hazell  23:46  

Yeah, absolutely, they can really cut your learning curve. I placed a high value on mentors, if, if it's not going to be in person, at least do a mastermind group, I think that's been really helpful for my business, it's allowed me to take off and not feel like I'm burdening one specific person, because I'm in a group of like, 200 other investors. So for me, it's better, it's better suited for me, then, you know, meeting somebody for lunch once a week, I just feel more comfortable with the mastermind group. So if you're not feeling like, hey, I want if you're feeling like I don't want to burden this person for lunch, once a week, and then become my mentor. First off, you're not really burdening him as long as you're bringing them some sort of value and you're open to being taught, but then I would encourage you to look into the mastermind groups, those can be really helpful as well, and might add a little bit more value there.

Josh Gorokhovsky  24:46  

Well, yeah, and also for the growth too, just real quick before you move to the next step. I was gonna say I have a mastermind group of five other friends of mine that are in the industry and we all do different things in real estate here in Los Angeles, but we meet every quarter and you know, we to grill each other on our business plan, what we've been doing what we've been with successful with what we've been failing at. So that's been, that's been great as well outside of just the, you know, the experience mentors, you have a group of people that are also going through it. So I would recommend doing that too.

Dalyn Hazell  25:15  

Yeah, good point. So I know you're big on this topic, learning versus earning, what does that mean? And how has that manifested in your business?

Josh Gorokhovsky  25:27  

Yeah, I mean, I also mentioned this earlier, we're all in this business to make money, right? So I'm not gonna sugarcoat that. But I will say that, for me, when I first got started, I had this idea that I was going to make a certain amount of money by a certain point. And once I reached that point, I wasn't making that certain kind of money, it was hard to not get discouraged, I still, I still kept going, I still was busting my butt and doing everything I was doing. But it's hard to, you know, keep going and not be discouraged when you're, you have these expectations of what you're, what you're going to make. So my mindset has has shifted to, you know, I really want to focus on learning as much as I can, rather than focusing on just the dollars of what I'm making, because that that education that I'm gaining from every single deal from helping my mentor with his deals from just being involved in many in as many scenarios as possible. I mean, I've helped friends of mine lease their units, I have been involved with larger developers and helping them find deals and analyze for them just to make a few bucks on the side when I got started. So just learning as much as I can, because that in itself will help me make more money down the road. So having just more of a long term view, as opposed to just the short term, how much money do I have in my pocket right now?

Dalyn Hazell  26:53  

Yeah, there is definitely a balance, I think the more you can learn, the better. I mean, even if that information isn't going to help you in the short term, like you're going to remember it, or drawback on it in the long term. So for example, if you're starting a company right now, start reading books on hiring employees, because even though you're not ready for that step, like you will be one day, and it's better to be prepared than not learning versus earning. But we do have to also prioritize earning, you know, of course, tons of books talk about that, you know, profit first, and, and so forth. We have to prioritize earning. But what Josh is saying, I believe, is learn while you earn, you know, because everything's gonna be a learning lesson. And there's so many things that we can't even talk about in this podcast that are going to come up in your investing business. But you're just going to have to deal with those as they come, draw on your mentors, and glean upon your past lessons. Because it's, like, there's so many things that are going to come up and be obstacles that you're just going to have to push through as a real estate investor.

Josh Gorokhovsky  28:01  

Of course, and this, this may be a better example, just a quick actual real life example of what I'm talking about with learning discerning is, you know, I, I help project manage a few of my mentors development projects. You know, when I first got started, I didn't have that luxury, because I didn't know anything. So you know, he didn't really trust me to do it. Now that I've had a handful of deals under my belt, he lets me run his projects. And I've had certain individuals in my life ask me, Why are you wasting your time managing his projects, when you have no equity in those projects, because I'm not getting paid for them?'' And my response to that is, yes, but with every project that learns something new, which allows me to take that to my project, become a better developer, a better investor. So it's helping me in the long run. And that's what I really mean by it. It's like real life, you know, almost a master's program, PhD program, whatever you want to call it, you're going to school, you're paying to go to school, you're not getting paid to go to school. So for me, that's the way I'm looking at it in every project, I'm just learning more and more and more.

Dalyn Hazell  29:05  

Well, I know this episode was a lot about flipping. So I want to go back to that that aspect real quick before we wrap up the show, but I mean, if if you were to give one piece of advice to somebody who wants to get started in the flipping atmosphere, just taking, you know, a distressed asset and making a new again, what what piece of advice would that be for that newbie?

Josh Gorokhovsky  29:30  

Yeah, you touched on it earlier, don't get into analysis, paralysis and trying to be perfect about everything. It's not going to go perfectly. There's, I bet you've talked to 100 investors, every single one of them will tell you that their first deal did not go perfectly. So just accept that and if you're willing, if you're wanting to get into this business, you have to just be willing to, you know, do your homework, as much as you can without going into analysis paralysis. Then just buying down and going into it. And whether you know, you made less money than you anticipated or you broke even or even if you lost a few bucks on the deal. That's not the entire point on your first deal. The point is just doing your first deal, the law the first deal, because that will get you to your second one. So I think that's the most important thing for people getting started, that are nervous to jump in.

Dalyn Hazell  30:28  

Now, you have to get that first deal. And I feel like a lot of questions go away for people after that first deal. And it doesn't mean you won't make a mistake again, but you'll learn so much. For me, I took on a very extensive rehab on a single family home, and like, I look at everything from the lens of that. So I'm like, oh, watch out for that. Ooh, don't let that person take advantage of you. And it's so valuable. Like you could listen to 1000 of these podcasts, it wouldn't matter until you get that first deal. So dive in and you know, Dornoch or or send out mailers and find that first deal, just Heck, find it on MLS. And even if you lose some money, it's going to be worth it. But I'm not advocating that you should lose money, do a bunch of analysis before you get into it, read the books, listen to the podcast, analyze like 100 deals, but don't just sit on the fence is the worst thing you can do for sure. I agree. All right, Josh. Well, this next section of our show is called the triple threat, we ask the same three questions to folks. What is the app tool or resource that has been the biggest game changer for your business? That's question one.

Josh Gorokhovsky  31:41  

There's a lot of different project management tools out there. Mine is specifically not a project management tool. But I really like this company app called to do list. They got a mobile app, and they have a web based app as well. And I pretty much organized my entire life there. So I have every single project, all the tasks that I have for every single project, and you know, everything else that's pertaining to my business, I'm an organization freak. So you know, I really like their layout. And it integrates well with my calendar. So to do this is a big one for me.

Dalyn Hazell  32:21  

Yeah, finding a system like that's key. Because when you have so many projects going on, you can forget things like, Oh, I forgot to set up utilities for that, Oh, I forgot to put insurance on that. If I don't write it down, I forget everything. So I jotted down every single little thing I got to do. Yeah. Question two, what's been the biggest learning lesson in the last year? And why do you think that happened?

Josh Gorokhovsky  32:46  

The biggest learning lesson has been I just harping on the patients, you know, again, I every year, it seems like I'm expecting that, you know, the next couple years, I'm gonna accelerate up to this, this, this, this point where I have accelerated tremendously over the past few years. But really just understanding that this is a marathon, it's not a sprint. And that, you know, with every deal on, I'm getting better and better and, and understanding more of where I want to be. So just have patience, allow yourself to grow. Allow yourself to learn, allow yourself to earn enough to keep going to the next deal. So that's probably the biggest thing for me.

Dalyn Hazell  33:35  

Yeah, everybody is in so many different phases. I mean, from the person who's just trying to make a few extra bucks with the real estate, to the person who's trying to quit their job. Like, it never really stops, you never really, like arrive, you know, because your mind just keeps growing each and every step. So you have to keep tabs on your patients, for sure. Because we're always seeing Instagram and people that are way, way ahead of us.

Josh Gorokhovsky  34:01  

Right. Which isn't always real. But yeah, it's hard to look at that and not compare.

Dalyn Hazell  34:08  

Question three, our podcast is all about helping others just achieve freedom with real estate investing, whether that's financial, lifestyle, or otherwise. So what does freedom mean to you?

Josh Gorokhovsky  34:21  

Freedom to me is, you know, being able to do the things that I enjoy in life, but also not becoming a slave to my business, right? Like we all start in this industry, I think because we want a certain lifestyle, and we want to be able to do things whenever we want to do them. But I've seen that a lot of you know, the older entrepreneurs that I've been fortunate enough to be around, some of them become slaves to their business that they created to have freedom, which is kind of ironic. So for me It's just about building up this business and building up certain systems that allow me to, you know, have that free time and that certain lifestyle with my friends, family and also within the business also, you know, within my day to day enjoying my business.

Dalyn Hazell  35:18  

Yeah, I mean, it's not wrong to flip. It's not wrong wholesale but we have to be focused on the passive investments you know syndication or rentals or notes whatever that means to you. Because that's ultimately what's going to give you freedom because a business can be a job. A business can be your slave driver if you allow it to be. Yep, perfect Josh, where can listeners get a hold of you? What do you want them to do from here?

Josh Gorokhovsky  35:46  

I don't know if I want to do anything. Just be happy. You know go if you're if you're thinking about getting into real estate do it I'm happy to answer any questions. You know, for whatever that's worth. You know, if they want to email me they can reach out to me on social media. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram @telosproperties, my website www.telosproperties.com, my email josh@telosproperties.com., so happy to talk with anybody about anything real estate, and, you know, just go out there and, and do it. 

Dalyn Hazell  36:19  

Perfect. It's been a pleasure having you on the show and sharing your knowledge with listeners. Thanks again, Josh. 

Josh Gorokhovsky  36:25  

Likewise, man, thanks for having me.

Outro  36:27  

Thank you for listening to the real estate investing for freedom podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave us a review and tune in next week for the next episode.