How to Effectively Self-Manage Your Units and Save the 10% | Dana Dunford

In this episode, Dalyn Hazell sits down with Dana Dunford and they talk about property management. This episode will be great for landlords who want to self-manage but isn’t ready to hire third-party management.

Dana Dunford is CEO and Co-founder of Hemlane, an online property management platform. Through real estate, she has become a strong advocate of purchasing properties anywhere, as the best investments are not typically in your backyard. She helps real estate investors set up the most intelligent process to manage rentals from a distance while connecting them with local, licensed professionals.

Key takeaways from this episode:

02:06 - Who is Dana Dunford and how did she get started in real estate

06:27 - The two mistakes of investors when it comes to property management

08:43 - The importance of setting expectations when managing a property

13:23 - The main thrust behind property management software and how it solves problems in the industry

17:23 - How Hemlane specifically address the communication barrier

19:13 - The role of a repair solutionist team

22:47 - Dana’s current portfolio

23:32 - What made Dana choose to manage at Florida

Tune in to learn more valuable information from Dana!

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Connect with Guest, Dana Dunford

Email: dana@hemlane.com

Website: www.hemlane.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danahdunford

Connect with the Host, Dalyn Hazell:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dalyn.hazell/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dhazell24/

Email: dalyndhazell@gmail.com

Transcript

Introduction  0:00  

This is the real estate investing for Freedom podcast, where we bring on the experts to teach you the golden nuggets of real estate investing, so you can escape the rat race and start living life on your terms. Now, here's your host, Dalyn Hazell.

Dalyn Hazell  0:21  

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of their show. In today's episode, I sit down with Dana Dunford. And we talk all about property management. So I don't think I've done an episode strictly on property management. And what's common in a lot of these podcasts is people get on and pitch their services. But actually, Dana is not really doing that today, she does have a service that is geared towards landlords who want to self-manage, but isn’t ready to hire out third-party management. So she developed software to bridge that gap. But she just gives a lot of good takeaways of property management in general. And things that I immediately took back in my businesses said, Hmm,  I could do that. And, and really self-managing your properties. If you have just a few or maybe have a lot even, it's not that hard. And but you have to do it right. And you have to follow the laws first and foremost, and also have systems in place. And that's what we're going to talk about today. And I also want to make an announcement that the show is going to be looking a little bit different. I am removing the golden nugget of the day, and actually making that its own solo episode. So I plan to do two episodes per week. And one being an interview-style kind of like this. And another being where I just pack as much value in 10 minutes or 15 minutes as I can just be talking. So that is what's going on. That's the road ahead. So hope you guys enjoy that new format. So with all that being said, Here's today's interview with Dana Dunford from Hemlane all about property management. Welcome, Dana to the show. How are you doing today?

Dana Dunford  1:57  

I'm great. Thanks so much for having me. 

Dalyn Hazell  2:00  

You bet. Well, Dana, can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and how you got started in real estate?

Dana Dunford  2:06  

Yeah, great. So daylight I was very different than most people were was accidental, that I got into it. I've always been fascinated by technology. So I love technology and how it brings people together, I was working at that time at Apple, I'm doing new product introductions, and why they accidentally got involved in real estate was my sister and her husband had basically said, Hey, we real estate investments, it's a 2008 crash is a great time to buy a ton of real estate and properties. And so they got me passionate about that, um, being in technology, I was working, basically investment banking hours, so I had nowhere else to spend my money. Because when you work all the time, you don't have anywhere to spend your money. So I was able to save some money, eventually started purchasing my own properties. And then from there just got really, I think, more fascinated with the operations of it than the actual purchase of the asset. And what I mean by that is the purchase, I find to be quite easy. Like you put in an Excel spreadsheet, you look at all these, your pro formas. You compare all the properties. And when you do it enough,  what's a good one to purchase, and where you should hold back. But then the difficult part comes like 10 years later when you're buying a hold. And you're dealing with all of these things that quite frankly, you never expected to deal with from like Plumbing requests and difficult requests and like emotional things that come with someone living in a home. And so I got actually really excited about the operation side of things. But obviously, on the purchase side, I'm always looking at new markets and where to invest.

Dalyn Hazell  3:53  

I'm fascinated by how people are just different and good at different things. So like for me, I love finding the deal, just hustling out there. And then but when it comes to property management like I just want to turn a blind eye. I don't want to think about it. I just get annoyed about it. So you were drawn to the property management, the operation side? Is that what you were? Is that what I'm hearing from you? 

Dana Dunford  4:15  

Yeah, I think it's interesting because Dalyn we were you and I was just talking about this before we jumped on the podcast that you self-manage your properties and 72% of rental properties are self-managed. So it's not like you're on your own where you're doing something that isn't smart. The majority of the market mass market does self-manage their properties. And so what really excited me about it was seeing a couple of like, kind of key pain points in it where it was like, hey, there's an opportunity here and there's no one size fits all. But there are also alternative options and what I mean by that, if I back up a little bit, the first thing I would say Is that with self-management, a lot of people do it because they want to control, they want the control of their property. And then they say, Oh, well,  traditional property management is too expensive, it's eight to 10% of monthly rent. However, if you're here, your time, your time is super valuable. So a lot of times they don't calculate that in. And then the third thing was, we noticed that property management was the second lowest-ranked industry, on  Angie's List, which is now called Angie was the second-lowest stream. So it had the worst reviews of all the companies in the space. So it was like, Hey, these are good, hardworking people, both property managers, as well as owners. How do we think about innovating, and bringing an alternative solution? That's kind of something between full service and doing your self-management and empowering real estate investors like you to be able to self manage themselves, but using a platform to do it and getting the services and the leasing agent or the property manager involved when they need them?

Dalyn Hazell  6:04  

Yes, and believe me, we will uncover that solution that melds those two together between like full service and self manage. But I also wanted to ask you, before we get onto that is, where do investors get it wrong? When it comes to property management? Say you're just getting your first one or two? Where's the most? What's the biggest pain point for investors? What do they get wrong?

Dana Dunford  6:27  

Now, first is education. They're naive, and they don't, they don't even understand tenant-landlord law. And they do something that is illegal, whether it's a fair housing violation, or I'm not screening a tenant and having a tenant move in, that turns out to be not qualified for their property, and then they're having a difficult time evicting them. So I think the first one is education. And the second I would say is professionalism. So what I mean by professionalism is like, a lot of real estates investors are very naive when they go into it, and they meet with their tenant, and they're like, great, here's my cell phone, here's my email, here's my home address. And they don't treat it like a business like you don't go into work at a company and are like,  here's my home address, like, come visit me that type of thing. And you're very professional about everything, there's a contract in place, the contract is well written like the employer has checked that you need to do the same thing as a landlord and treat it with a level of professionalism of, hey, this is a business, we have a legally binding contract, we refer back to the terms of it, the terms are fair, for the tenants, they're fair for us, we have a really good relationship, but it's a business relationship, not a personal relationship. The second that it becomes personal, it becomes very difficult to delineate between what is where to say no, and where to say yes. And so that way, by treating it always, like a business, you are a professional. And then if you have the education on how to do that, you should have really smooth property management. And with the exception of like one or two, like lemons, or something that just like got by you that you didn't foresee to happen. Otherwise, your property manager should be super smooth.

Dalyn Hazell  8:08  

Yeah, it's definitely hard to separate business from personal and I don't know why it's that way with residential real estate sometimes. And I've fallen into the trap of giving the tenant my personal phone number, giving them my personal email. And we're going to talk about in this episode how to get away with that, and in what you found out in crafting this solution that you've created this software. But can you explain also how setting expectations is just so important when managing a property like setting those expectations upfront? Rather than down the road? How important is that?

Dana Dunford  8:43  

Yeah, I mean, it's crucial, because even if you're in the right, you don't want drama where a tenant feels like you screwed them over. And I'll give you two examples. Like in the leasing process, leasing is obviously the finding and placing of the tenant. Two examples of that. The first is the application process. They're intended to go when they submit an application, they pay a background and credit check, and then they never hear from the owner and the owners like up decline. And they're like, wait for a second, what was your process? Why did you decline me? Like, why did I have to pay some of these background and credit checks, which I don't agree with are like $50 An applicant? And it's like, we they just ran off with the tenant's money, that's not fair to the tenant, right? And so having a really clear process, and what I mean by that is,  you come into showing and I'm showing the property, it's like, okay, great, you are an applicant, here are my qualifications objectively, you need to hit this minimum income requirement. This minimum credit requirement, if you have an eviction, I don't take you. I have these exceptions for pets. If you do have a pet, I charge pet rent and deposit and you basically go through and you say, okay, great, fill out an application. I will be back in touch with you in 24 hours. If after you submit it regarding the background and credit check, and then my next step and my next step, and if you have two applicants who apply at the same time, once more qualified, you're only going to run the background and credit check on that one before you go back to the other. So really having a process and communicating with the tenants, just as a heads up, someone else came in, right before you, I'm not going to run your background and credit check, because I want to see if they're qualified first. And if they are not going to take you, once you have a process like that, no tenant is going to come to you and say, Oh, I was mistreated, or like, I can't believe you're you charge me for a background and credit check just to decline to deny me as an applicant, it makes you very professional. So that's point number one. Um, the second thing I would say with that process of leasing and tenant placement is the lease contract itself. I've been a tenant before. And I can tell you, I never read the lease agreement, I would like to scroll down to the bottom. And now this is like,  you and I are people who have like gone to college and like,  gone through this process of like, Hey, we should be reading these contracts. But as a tenant, you kind of just have confidence in the landlord, and you just scroll to the bottom and sign it. And when something goes wrong, like say the tenant doesn't pay on time, and you charge them a late fee. They're gonna be like, Why do you charge me that late fee? Can you cancel that? Can you make a one-time exception? And so it's really important that you go through that lease agreement, it's super comprehensive. Everything from like, our is a tenant responsible for landscaping, or you responsible for landscaping? Who's responsible for cleaning the windows,  anything like that you have all of that detailed and lease and then you sit down with the tenant, you say, do you understand this? There's a late fee. So if you don't pay by the fourth of the month, you're going to get a late fee. On the fifth, do you understand that I don't waive it. So like, Don't come to me and ask for an exception. Because if that doesn't get waived, this is our contract. And we're sticking with that. And I think if you do that, and like actually go term by term with the tenant, and then have them sign it, it sets yourself off where the tenants if something goes wrong, where they're like, Wait, who's supposed to do the snowplow removal is not my responsibility, should I contact the landlord, they revert back to that document because they remember that they've had this conversation with you. And so I think setting yourself up for success with that will really like if you push everything off in the leasing process, and really have a really good cadence, it's going to really set you up for success once the tenant physically moves into the property.

Dalyn Hazell  12:12  

Absolutely. Well, you're absolutely well, yeah, and, and so thanks for answering that on setting expectations. That's something that I haven't done well in the past in it. And then it's like, oh, this wasn't mentioned in the lease, but this is the way I run. So like everything has to be in writing and agreed to by the tenant before they move in. And yes, it sounds obvious, but it just goes on untouched most of the time for small-time investors and even large investors.

Dana Dunford  12:41  

You get busy, right? Yeah, you do. Okay, sign this agreement, we need a sign within the next five hours and you like don't have that checklist of processes of how have we done this? How have we done this? 

Dalyn Hazell  12:50  

Yeah, right. I remember on my first one, I was leasing on my first property, I was actually way more structured and how I did it. And then by my fifth or six, like, I'm like, just,  pick the best one. And so that's like, that's the wrong way to go about it. Like, if, if I'm not going to do it up to proper expectations, I need to have somebody else or software do that. And so I think now would be a good time to mention, like, why did you start him laying the property management software? What was the main thrust behind that and we can dive into how it solves a lot of problems in the industry?

Dana Dunford  13:23  

Yeah, well being here in Silicon Valley. And like being in technology, I after Apple, I was working at NASA, the home technology company. And then NASA actually got acquired by Google for 3.2 billion, sort of like, back at a big startup, one of the big four but I saw how much technology in the home helps and assist with things and actually adds an element of love and like being able to connect with other people. And what I mean by that with like a nest, for example, having the technology feel like it has your back with everything from like,  your thermostat and saving energy and feeling like a good person in the world to security and being like, oh my gosh, I just had a package left on my front desk, I'm or at my front door, I'm traveling all paying my neighbor and be like, Hey, can you pick it up for me, so it doesn't get stolen or whatever. And really having technology fostered facilitates with communication, and also empowering people to be able to do things themselves. Like if you think of before Nast, home security, you literally had like 80 P who like is sitting on call in someplace and they're watching the cameras 24/7 having to call now it's like I just gonna alert someone's in your backyard. I'm like, I don't know that person. So I really saw how technology helps facilitate and empower people within their homes. And we really wanted something similar. My co-founder, Frank, and I, got fascinated by like, how can we help provide have technology provided health With services for tenants for their home, as well as the owner, who's a real estate investor for the property, like how do we make it a better situation. And I related a lot to Uber-like before Uber, I remember always taking a taxi and I'd always get in a taxi. And being like, they're totally screwing me over. They didn't start, they started the meter too early, or they charged me too much. Or they would say I only take cash. And I'm like, There's a credit card machine here. Why would you only take cash,  I don't have cash, all this kind of stuff. Where were they taking the long route to get me home? Like, and just charging me more for it. And I remember with Uber-like was that sense of trust of like, okay, I get in there, I know how much I'm paying in advance. I know they're getting me from point A to point B, the quickest way possible, I have the power to review them, I'm empowered, right. And that was in an industry that really felt kind of like property management where tenants think their owners are slum lords. And owners are like, Oh, my tenants are calling me at inconvenient times. Like there's not this, like love for one another of like,  this is a quality, high-quality relationship. And so I was fascinated with how technology would transform this industry of real estate. And the 44 million rental households hold out there, of how do you make it where people love the home that they live in. Even as a renter, there's no stigma around that. And landlords are empowered to feel like I have control. I'm providing a great solution to my tenants, they love me, because at the end of the day if they're your customer like you need your tenants to be happy, because then they'll it's repeat business. They stay around, they renew their lease, and it's like how do we give the industry a better name? Otherwise, everyone just thinks of their landlord as a slumlord, which no one wants, right. So yeah.

Dalyn Hazell  16:48  

Yeah, there's definitely that stigma. And it's it. You can help that by having like, we talked about proper expectations and communication, but there's still a gap to be filled. And I love that you crafted a solution for that. And so let's dive into some specifics like how does Hemlane specifically address the communication barrier there? Like? Is there still direct text message or audio communication there? Or have? Have you found a way around that? Or what's new and innovative there?

Dana Dunford  17:23  

Yeah, well, everyone has their preferred mode of communication. So you as the owner might say, I only want emails, I hate text messages. And the tenant might say I only want text message, like, I don't want email, we still put it into the system and document it so that it's verified for legal records. But you can choose, you're empowered to choose how you want to communicate, right, and then the other person can use the other communicates the other way. And it all gets logged in to the platform. So like, that's one thing that we do on the communication side. The other is with repair coordination. Um, it's really hard as a landlord, if like, say, your tenant says, Can you install a garbage disposal? And you as a landlord are like, No, that's not part of the plan, I don't really want to install one, then you're the person who has to say, No, I'm on the communication side, we have a repair solutionist team, they basically communicate with the tenants about the repairs. And we have the tenants to rank them. And usually, the tenant, like our goal is to let the tenant know why having Garbage Disposals is not to their advantage. And like,  why? Why we should why we're saying no to it, for example, then your rent would probably have to go up the following month to cover it. And like, you don't want that to happen, right? All these types of things just provide a level of professionalism. And so our team has a track record in doing so and like providing a very systematized way to do things to keep owners happy and tenants happy.

Dalyn Hazell  18:47  

Exactly, exactly. And sometimes tenants just want to reason that they want to be heard. And it definitely helps if you can, even if you have to politely say no, that that you give a reason. So that's excellent. I'd love to dive more into that repair that middle person. So is that a middle man or a middle woman? As far as fielding that communication? What does that look like? Exactly?

Dana Dunford  19:13  

Yeah, so it is an option to have it like not everyone who uses Hemlane uses it, although it's the most beloved. So you basically have the option to have 24/7 repair coordination. So your tenants can put submit a request online, or they can call in either one doesn't matter. And we'll be able to help them with whatever the problem is they have. So it starts with troubleshooting. It's like okay,  your garbage disposals not working. Did you press the reset button? You don't know where the reset button is? No problem. We're gonna walk you through exactly how to do that. Um, so it's going through that understanding like is there HMI noise what is happening so we know what's wrong. Then going through what are the best next steps? The best next steps may be like, hey, and we're going to have to get someone out there to replace the garbage disposal. And we would check the owner threshold make sure the owner If it's over their thresholds, call the owner for approval just to make sure that there aren't any surprises. But also letting the tenant know, hey, just as a heads up, if it's because you put a beer bottle cap like down the garbage disposal, or if it's anything tenant damage, just so you are going to be charged back for this, like, we just wanted to make sure you're aware of that. So there aren't any surprises because your lease agreement will say you're responsible for your own damages. And so that type of stuff, they'll do all that communication, as the owner, you're empowered because you have access to all of those, we record all of our calls for quality assurance, and we have it all logged into the system. And so you can go in and see what our communications are with a tenant, you could jump in and make a comment just to us or comment to us and the tenants of how you want things handled. But basically, we're about backend office for you. That's 24/7. So on Sunday night, when you don't want to be checking your phone or email and you're at dinner, you don't have to because you know we're there for you.

Dalyn Hazell  20:57  

That's a huge asset. Can you explain how technology really unlocks investors to do rental properties from 1000s of miles away, and how specifically, your technology allows them to do that?

Dana Dunford  21:09  

Yeah, so um, in our case, it's plug-and-play. Like it starts with software, there are some people who just use our software and they self manage, they live down the street, but then you can get a leasing agent. So, someone who's local to help find in-place tenants, you can get that 24/7 repair coordination. And you can use one platform for all your properties. So Dalyn, if you have a property in Missouri, and then you have another one in California, and another one in Washington, they are all on one platform, you get to pick and choose who you want to work with locally. And you have one place to look at all your numbers, look at all your property management without having to go to 10 different,  places for that information. Yeah, managers.

Dalyn Hazell  21:50  

Exactly. And so you mentioned a leasing agent. For me, I've been spending a lot of time this week leasing out a new property. And I've made a couple of trips over there just,  for 30 minutes apiece to allow tenants to walk through it and, and I like that process, but eventually I want to outsource that. So you're saying that if a customer chooses that level of service from his line that they can have a local leasing agent do that hard, heavy lifting for them?

Dana Dunford  22:17  

Yes, that's correct. So you can choose to Select the leasing agent and the platform to do it for you.

Dalyn Hazell  22:24  

Okay, awesome. And so great. Any more points on how your software helps investors for we kind of move on to the next topic here? No, I think we've covered it so far. Awesome. Very good. And so in your, what is your portfolio look like? Today? As far as you mentioned, you started buying,  la have you? Have you acquired a portfolio as of now and what does that kind of look like for you?

Dana Dunford  22:47  

Yeah, so my husband and I have real estate it's in it's out of state, as, as you can imagine, in Florida, and we use Hemlane to manage properties are still pretty small investors. So we're not big by any means. Um, but then on Hemlane itself, we manage there are 14,000 rentals. So that is sort of like when I think of my portfolio, it's like, all of that. Right? The 14,000 Managing, plus my own personal, I think between the two, I spend more time on the hemline side than the personal side.

Dalyn Hazell  23:23  

Right, right. And so what made you choose Florida? This may be interesting to people who want to manage out of state, what made you choose that state?

Dana Dunford  23:32  

Yeah. So it's really interesting because once you are okay, going out of state, you can literally go anywhere, right? So when I first started looking at markets, in the end, don't get me wrong. Florida's not the only market on that, like, for example, my older sister and her husband were in Denver. So I looked at that market as well. Um, but  I did a lot of research, as we were looking actually, we almost put a couple of offers in Boise, Idaho. And this was like four to five years ago. And we're like, oh, my gosh, we should have done that like fastest-growing rent city. Slash investments. We're like, we should have done that four to five years ago. But it looked at Boise like looked at Arizona. Phoenix, looked at a lot in Texas looked a lot in Texas, looked into Atlanta, Georgia. And all these cases, I would find people I knew who lived there, who were kind of like my target from a renter perspective. And I would interview them and I'm on a zoom like this, I would get a map. I would be like What areas do like what's up and coming? Tell me more. Tell me more about this. I would really get to know like, everything about the city itself and the suburbs of the city and come up with Hey, do I think this is a good place to invest? And what ended up doing it in a call of Florida because we go out there a couple of times a year was a couple of things. One, we actually knew the market because my twin sister and her husband have a home down there in Florida that's kind of close to where the rental property is. So we had been there. And I'd already had some sort of emotional attachment in the sense. I was like, wow, why don't more people live here? It's, super affordable. And it's beautiful. It's a beautiful place to live. And so why don't more people live here. And then it came to find out when I looked at the numbers, it's like, oh, population growth is really high. institutional investors aren't going there. Because it's just an hour outside of Tampa, where it was a little bit too far we're an institutional investor wouldn't go. But it was the horse capital of the world. And also had all these operations, Amazon had just built facilities there. UPS is there. There's an I'm totally drawing a blank on it, but some like tire story that has operations there. So there was just a ton of businesses that almost made it a bit more recession-proof in that sense. They don't have the federal government there, but they had that they have also schools. So I kind of went through the list and said, Hey, this is a really good place to invest. And then I took that and compared it to Houston, and Austin and clean Texas, and Arizona Phoenix, and I started just putting the numbers on pro-forms. And I was like, okay, the numbers really make sense here. And the trends are in our favor. And so that was kind of the impetus of it. Um, but from that perspective, I think,  for anyone out there, it's like, you want to do your research, and you want to feel like you'll know when if you're buying your first property, you'll know this is the right move because you've done so much research in different markets, or been looking at properties every day online, that you just know when it's the right one. And like when to move on it.

Dalyn Hazell  26:35  

Yeah, yeah, hopefully,  our listeners, take away from this, that we're not trying to tell you one way or the other, just like you said, in the beginning, 72% of landlords self manage just not that you're doing something wrong, but there's always room to improve. And so I think you are just mentioning that technology is a big portion of how you've been able to improve your portfolio and your clients and, and how you choose markets and so forth. So that's all amazing. Dana, any last remarks before we head into the last section of our show here? Why ask the final three questions? No, I don't think so. Excellent. All right, this portion of our shows is called the triple threat. And the first question of the three is, and you can't mention him a line. But what is the app resource or tool that has been the biggest game-changer for your rental business?

Dana Dunford  27:24  

Say rental business, but just business in general, the biggest one I love, love, love, love. Love is Boomerang is in Gmail integration. And basically, people always get inundated with emails, like whether it's a real estate agent, or you know something about a loan or like a mortgage that you need to sign a loan officer. And basically, you see, like, I might send you an email and say, like, Jalen, thanks so much for saying, you'll have me on my, on your podcast does,  December 17, at noon work for you. And then when I press send, I always do Boomerang, which basically says if Dalyn doesn't respond within four business days, or I can say whatever, bring it back to the top of my inbox, and it makes sure that I never lose anything, because then I can just really quickly see up and boomerang back up, I can even put private notes in there that you can't see if like, follow up with him to like, make sure we have a time on the calendar. And he really makes sure that I don't miss anything as nothing goes lost from that perspective. And, and so I really like it. I think it's a fantastic, fantastic tool.

Dalyn Hazell  28:29  

Yeah, I'll have to check that out. Because sometimes I'll send an important email and I need a response, but then they don't respond. 

Dana Dunford  28:35  

And so you don't want to get it to do list and like do it separately on a to do list. So yeah.

Dalyn Hazell  28:41  

Number two, what has been your biggest learning lesson in the last 12 months?

Dana Dunford  28:46  

Biggest learning lesson? Um, oh, I had this one. This one was a really interesting one I got the other day about artificial deadlines. I'm a very aggressive person. And people told me that that is. I'm like someone who's always trying to overachieve and everything. And so how I've always run everything in my life is having artificial deadlines, where it's like, okay, Dalyn, we need to buy rental property together. And we need to have done it as of yesterday. Right? And so I always push things and especially on the product side, I would do the same thing of like, we need to get this feature out. Here's our deadline, we're going to go for it and we have to meet this deadline. And what I've learned is artificial deadlines actually kill innovation a lot of times and it's something where it's like, well, why why do we have this deadline? Is it just so something can come out so I can learn something? Or like why do we actually have this it's really taking a step back and looking at priorities and not saying everything's a priority and has to have been done yesterday? But really saying like what's important to me what's important to my work or my personal life or whatever, when it what is realistic to get done? What's going to make me happy, others happy, and also provide innovation. So I think the biggest What I've learned is no artificial deadlines.

Dalyn Hazell  30:03  

That's awesome. Question number three, our podcast is all about helping others achieve freedom with real estate investing, whether that's financial, lifestyle, or otherwise. So what does freedom mean to you?

Dana Dunford  30:17  

Freedom to me basically means that you're happy every day, honestly, um, maybe that's not the answer you're looking for. But freedom brings happiness. And so if you know that you're happy every day, it is that you're free, right? Because you have the power and choice to make decisions. And that's why you're happy. And I think it's the same thing in real estate that you don't want to get bogged down, which happens too often. With real estate, and you want to have that freedom to say, I'm happy if I want to do nothing today. And that's what makes me happy I can if I want to work 50 hours because that makes me happy, then I can but that's the freedom to me is like having that decision. Always knowing whatever is gonna make you happy that day is what you're doing.

Dalyn Hazell  31:08  

Oh, that's not a bad answer at all. And I haven't actually heard it that way. So thanks for mentioning that. Dana, working listeners get a hold of you if they want to know more.

Dana Dunford  31:16  

Yeah, so I'm really good at email. I'm terrible with phone calls. So you can reach me at Hemlane. It's dana@Hemlane.com. You can reach me there. And that's probably the best way if you want to email me property management questions, anything like that? I feel free to do so.

Dalyn Hazell  31:36  

I'm curious, do you? Do you love property management? Or do you just love helping investors through technology?

Dana Dunford  31:43  

Yeah, it's really interesting. People say I actually had a McKinsey consultant tell me you love what you're good at. Lead the people. When you say like, Oh, why are you so passionate about our love it? What they find more often than not is what people love is what they're really good at. And so for me, I think it kind of relates to technology, because I love doing product initiatives. I love driving products and automation and facilitating using technology to fill us facilitate better communications. But I would say that I think part of the reason I love property management is that I know so much about it, someone will come to me with some random case of something that happened like during COVID. I'm like, Oh my gosh, yeah. Like, I've seen very similar examples. And like, this is how someone solved it, and it blew up in their face. And here's how another person did and it was perfect and amazing and a great solution for the tenant and for them. So I think,  just based on my experience, that's why I'm passionate about property management. But of course, technology will always be in my heart as well.

Dalyn Hazell  32:45  

All right, Dana, thank you for being on the show and adding great value to our listeners and myself included.

Dana Dunford  32:51  

Great, thanks so much for having me.

Outro  32:53  

Thank you for listening to the real estate investing for Freedom podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave us a review and tune in next week for the next episode.