How to Get Deals on the MLS In Today's Hot Market | Jake Mullins

In this episode, Dalyn Hazell sits down with JakeMullins to talk about the step-by-step process in finding deals on the MLS and the importance of real estate agents to investors.

Jake Mullins is the founder of Mullins Pro Realty Group and the Beer and Business Podcast. Mullins Pro Realty Group is a market-leading real estate company that is experiencing explosive growth – doubling in size the past few years.  The Beer and Business Podcast is a fresh take on the business podcast genre infusing comedy and entertainment to a mostly educational format. Jake is also the author of Adapted Leadership – A New Breakthrough on Harnessing Leadership Style.  Adapted Leadership has been read by well-known CEOs, politicians, and business leaders around the world. Prior to starting Mullins Pro Realty Group, Jake spent over 17 years in various executive leadership positions.

Key takeaways from this episode:

-How Jake started in real estate and how did real estate find him.

-Starting a real estate agent business creates financial freedom.

-How real estate agents can serve investors and how investors can serve real estate agents.

-Find an expert to become an expert.

-Appreciate real estate agents.

-What should an agent be looking for in an investor?

-How to get a competitive edge in this crazy hot market?

-Strategies to increase chances of getting a deal on a market property.

-Investors should find an agent that knows how to build relationships.

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Connect with Guest, Jake Mullins:

Website: www.mullinsprorealty.com / www.beer.business

Connect with the Host, Dalyn Hazell:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dalyn.hazell/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dhazell24/

Email: dalyndhazell@gmail.com

Transcript

Introduction  0:00  

This is the real estate investing for freedom podcast where we bring on the experts to teach you the golden nuggets of real estate investing so you can escape the rat race and start living life on your terms. Now, here's your host Dalyn Hazell,

Dalyn Hazell  0:22  

And we are live. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the real estate investing for freedom podcast. In today's show, I sat down with Jake Mullins, he is the owner of Mullins pro Realty Group. Jake is an expert on real estate agencies. And he's going to guide us along on how to find deals step by step on the MLS. A lot of investors have given up on the MLS, which is basically the multiple listing service. It shows all of the on market properties right now. So investors have really given that up, and they've started to look elsewhere for deals because prices are just too high. But Jake, definitely debunks that myth and it shows us that you can still find great lucrative deals on the MLS. So we're gonna go over that today. Jake is again, the founder of Mullins Pro Realty Group. He's also the author of adapted leadership, and he has over 20 years of executive leadership experience, including large publicly trading companies. And he's a great person to be around, he's got a wealth of knowledge, and he's definitely a go giver. So make sure you give this one a listen all the way through. But before all that, here's today's golden nugget of the day. Today's Golden Nugget, and this is a gold nugget you're gonna find later in the show. And that just blew me away when I heard about it. But don't sleep on the MLS, definitely there are deals to be found there. And one strategy of getting your offers accepted on the MLS is to always put in a backup offer. So even if you talk to the listing agent, or your agent talks to the listing agent, and your offers are just way below the asking price, way below what you think they accept, first of all, still make the offer, no matter how you feel. And also, if it already has an offer in place, or maybe it's just too low right now make sure to submit it as a backup offer. Because that's one strategy that Jake and his clients have been able to secure a lot of deals on the MLS is using that backup offer approach. So try that out when you're searching for properties on the MLS. And I think you'll be very surprised by your results. So with all that being said, Here is today's interview with Jake Mullins. Welcome to the show. Jake, how are you doing today?

Jake Mullins  2:43  

I'm doing great. How are you doing, Dalyn?

Dalyn Hazell  2:44  

Fantastic. I'm super excited to talk to you, your real estate agent around the Atlanta, Georgia area. And I think you have a lot of good tidbits to share for investors. So first of all, before all that, can you give the listeners a short introduction about yourself. And how you got started in real estate.

Jake Mullins  3:00  

Yeah, I tell people all the time that I didn't find real estate, real estate found me. So as much as I've tried to outrun this beast, it always catches up to me. So I spent about 15 years at at&t and through my entire 10 year I was doing some form of commercial real estate. And, you know, did pretty well there but I just after 15 years, I'm like, Man, this corporate grind is not for me. And along the way my wife was in residential real estate. So I'm like, Well, you know, I guess what we're gonna do is start a real estate business. And here we are. And yeah, so we started a real estate business south of Atlanta. And just loving it, enjoying it. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about that. And I also host the beer in business podcast, which is a podcast for entrepreneurs. And that's been a wild ride. We've been doing that for three years. And yeah, so that's short on me. We've got a farm, a 10 acre farm with three kids and busier than I care to admit.

Dalyn Hazell  3:59  

And it's okay, you're getting stuff done. And for those who don't know about his podcast, he just revealed to me that it's in the top 100 of business shows. So make sure you give it a listen for sure.

Jake Mullins  4:10  

So we're kind of wild wacky, so just be careful. 

Dalyn Hazell  4:14  

Yeah, it's got a comedy spin on it, too. 

Jake Mullins  4:14  

It does. Yeah, for sure. 

Dalyn Hazell  4:14  

How did you get started in the real estate agent sector?

Jake Mullins  4:22  

Well, I mean, I'll tell you for me this is all about financial freedom, and living the life that I want to live. So when I did leave corporate America, I mean, I was just, you know, working crazy hours, I had no flexibility, I had to do what I had to do. And getting into real estate was an opportunity for me to build a business and, you know, eventually have passive income, both on the investing side and also on the brokerage side. And, you know, I lost a lot of time with my kids, you know, working seven days a week traveling the world, and I finally made the decisions like, Man, I'm in My 40s and it's time to live life for me. And so that's really what got us into the brokerage business?

Dalyn Hazell  5:07  

Awesome. Yeah, a lot of people. It's called the midlife crisis for a reason, right? So you just kind of wake up one day and some people have a different ages, obviously, I hit mine at like 22. So I am probably in a good quarter life crisis, I guess is the new, new term for it. So Jake, you're doing this real estate agent stuff? Why did you get into that for financial freedom? Because that sounds to me, like, it's a lot of work to start a real estate agent business. So how do you kind of spin that towards your financial freedom goal?

Jake Mullins  5:39  

Well, two things number one, my, my, a big piece of this was to become a passive investor, you know, so I want to make that income on real estate investing, and have money out there working for me and just have no stress. I mean, that's, that's really what this is all about. And I figured there's no better way to become a really, really good real estate investor, than becoming a really, really good real estate agent and or broker. And so learning every little thing about this business, the market, you know, where the shifts in value are coming from being an agent, has really helped me identify where the smart investments are, how to invest, when to invest, all that kind of stuff. So it's all kind of interconnected. But the other side of this, too, is, you know, I'm building up a real estate team of really talented real estate agents that, you know, will make another passive business for me, in fact, that already is I've got passive income on that side. And, you know, what I do is I bring these agents on, I set them up with a really strong compensation, teach them everything I know, and they go out and they make our business money. So you know, these are two ways that I can make passive income. But of course, for me, the end game was just holding real estate, because that's where that's where the wealth is. Yeah, it's definitely another form of leverage, right? creating these businesses, that you can hire people, and then they're incentivized to work. And then, you know, they

Dalyn Hazell  7:11  

get compensated, of course, and I think real estate agents, businesses, I don't know if it's easy or hard to scale compared to a normal other business. But you know, these real estate agents are generally entrepreneurs. So they're, they're excited to get started and kind of work for themselves. So if you can train somebody, as an entrepreneur, in essence, although they're still under you, it's kind of an interesting take on that. How has it been training these agents under you? How has that been for you?

Jake Mullins  7:40  

I really enjoy it. And it goes back to my podcast. So our podcast is for entrepreneurs. I have a love affair with entrepreneurs, anybody that's willing to step out, and take risk, and throw caution to the wind. And just get out there and do it, I've got mad respect for, you know, when you can leave that soft and brace of a regular paycheck and go out there and say, Well, I'm gonna try to risk it all. I just love that man. And that's what makes our economy move. I mean, it, you know, small business entrepreneurs, believe it or not, that is the backbone of our economy. So being able to work with people that have that mindset on a daily basis is very rewarding for me. And, you know, it's a skill set that I've learned over the years. And so I've got the, I've got a background of as an entrepreneur, this is not my first business, I've owned several. But I've also worked for corporate America. So I know how to manage at scale. And I've learned a lot of those things about operational rigor and that sort of thing. But I've also got that free mindset of somebody that's going to look at a problem and say, we can tackle that, let's go for it. So you know, being able to bring those things and add value to people's lives and work with that entrepreneurial spirit every day. It's super rewarding. I love it.

Dalyn Hazell  8:56  

Yeah, it's got to be rewarding and a breath of fresh air, because I think a lot of people are kind of trapped. No one in their family is an entrepreneur, no one in their workplace is not sure. So you're kind of the only one with this mindset. But it kind of opens your mind up to different things when you hang around people like that all the time. So that's awesome. Well, I don't want to, I definitely don't want to take away from your career and what you're doing right now. But I want to focus our attention on investors, and how real estate agents can serve investors and how investors can serve real estate agents. Because it's an important gap that needs to be filled. And it's a good conversation to have. So diving right in, I mean, what can an investor who's excited about this show and wants to get after it? What should they be looking for in a real estate agent? So that's the question I have. I don't know if you work with a lot of investors, but just curious about your thoughts on that.

Jake Mullins  9:45  

I do. Can I step back even further, though, certainly. Because one of the things that I've done a lot of these podcasts I've talked to a lot of people about real estate, real estate investing on podcasts. And I always have to get myself out of my own shoes, because I do too. Every day, and a lot of people that will tune into this, they don't have experience as a real estate agent, they don't have experience in investing in it sounds really, it sounds really intimidating. And so I always try to share a couple of things with people, because I think these are really critical lessons before you get to the investing part. Warren Buffett famously said that the eighth wonder of the world is compound interest. And it's one of those things that nobody ever taught me about, as a kid, my parents never talked to me about it, I kind of learned this on my own stumbling into it in my 20s. And it is an unbelievable force, it really is. And everybody should know that it can work to your benefit, or it can work against you, you know, poor people pay compounding interest, and rich people earn it, you know, and so I always try to talk to people about interest and how you can use it as a tool. And you know, the benefits that it can have. And you know, vice versa. And compounding interest comes in a lot of different fashions. But, you know, the eighth wonder of the world is compound interest, the ninth wonder of the world is investing with leverage. When I talk to people I say, you know, have you ever thought about investing with leverage? Oh, look at me, like, What are you talking about? investing with leverage is very, very simply investing with other people's money, which is how you take somebody that's not rich, and make them rich, you know, if all you can do is muster a 5%, return on the money that you have accumulated, then you have to start with a big bucket of money to have a really big bucket of money. But if you can use somebody else's cash in create your so you can start with a small bucket, and make a really huge bucket in a short period of time. Well, why wouldn't I want to do that? And it's a tool that's available to most people. And in when I take the time to explain how investing works, it, it's a thing, you know, lightbulb goes off? And I'll share an example. And I will get to your question, I promise I will land this plane, I'm getting there. But you know, let's just take a $40,000 investment. So if you if you had $40,000, you're like, what am I going to do with this cash. If you had a really good financial advisor, and you put that money in the market, and you got a 10% return, that money would be worth about $95,000, in 10 years. So you started with 45, you ended up with 95. So you made a $55,000. You know, net gain on your cash. That's good, right? I mean, that's compounding interest. That's amazing. So when I when I talk to people, this is where the lightbulb goes off. So you take that same $40,000, and you use that as your 20% down payment on a $200,000 rental property. So now in 10 years, if the market sucks, and it all in the house only accrues at 3%. In that 10 years, that house that you bought for 200,000 is now worth 90,000. But here's the kicker over those 10 years, somebody else was paying the rent for you. So your your taxes, your insurance and your mortgage, were all paid by a renter, so you took the end. So you might have you know, you might have a payoff on that loan in 10 years, depending on your interest rate of maybe $120,000. Right. So you took $40,000 now you have a house that's worth, you know, roughly 300,000 that you own 120 on. Now you've got $180,000. And that's when it's like, oh, wait a minute. That's how it works. Yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing. So I bring that back around to your question about a real estate agent. If you are getting into investing you're not in the real estate business, and you're new to it, find a good agent, period, full stop, end of story. If you don't have somebody that knows what the hell they're doing, guiding you, you can make some really foolish decisions. And the other thing too is when you have a good agent on your side, you'll find that a lot of times your instincts as a real estate investor are wrong. And I'll give you the perfect example right now, a lot of investors if they're new, and we're me or somebody my team's working with them, one of the first things I do is I say well where where's the foreclosures where the cheap buys and it's like you know, right now in our market, believe it or not, if you go look in these communities, and pay full price, full retail price for the house, it is a better investment than trying to find something that's got property distress over in another part of the market. So a lot of things are really counterintuitive, but you're not going to know those unless you've got somebody that you know, eats, sleeps and breathes this stuff every day. In most real estate investors, they have another career. You know they're out doing something else making money somewhere else. They're just trying to find a way to invest that money that they've earned. So it's just like, I've got a portfolio, I've got money in the market, I'm not just into real estate. Do you think I'm sitting there day trading? No, I've got a financial advisor out there, making my investments because I suck at the stock market. I'm not good at that. But somebody else is good at it, you know? So to answer your question, if you're looking to get into this, for the first time, find a pro, find somebody who knows what the hell they're doing, and just latch arms with them and say, Show me. And if they're good, they will show you.

Dalyn Hazell  15:34  

Yeah, those are great points. Yeah, it's like you wouldn't, you wouldn't have this sickness and then not go to a doctor for it, or you wouldn't have a legal question and not go to an attorney about it. So go to the experts, until you yourself are an expert. And I would argue, you know, you may not be an expert in every part of your city or every asset class. So that's why you always need people in your corner, you need to be building your team at all times, to be prepared for that, for sure.

Jake Mullins  16:02  

So now that you know what I want to, I want to stress something too, because you just brought something up, and it's a metaphor used all the time. So there are some investors at all that, you know, I've worked with in the past. And every once in a while, they're like, Oh, you know, I found this property, I'm going to go it alone. It's like, okay, and they're not in the real estate business. They just happen to be an investor, in a really good real estate agent is like a doctor. So in this day and age, right, you'll sit there and you're like, Oh, I got you know, sore throat, and I got this, you know, symptom and that symptom. And you'll go, you'll do your research on Web MD, and you'll go to your doctor, you'd be like, I got a bacterial infection. And like, Well, let me check everything out. And he'll sit there and they'll take your temperature and look in your throat and all this stuff. They'll do some tests. They're like, yep, you got bacterial infections, like I frickin told you just write me that prescription, I know what I need. And I'm out of here. But every once in a while, you go into the doctor, and he's like, Hey, I hear something, let me take a look. And he saves your life because you had no idea what was going on. A good real estate agent is the same way so many times people are like, Oh, I read this stuff on the internet, I got it. But you know, you get caught up in a really complex deal with a title issue or a problem. I had a really complex easement issue recently. And you know, it was one of those things where nobody in the transaction saw it coming. And I was able to save my clients' backside in a big way. And so it's one of those things where Yeah, there's a lot of stuff out there available, but you're going to hit something where a true professional is going to know what to do and you're not

Dalyn Hazell  17:40  

Yeah, and definitely your first example was Hey, I know I have a bacterial infection so just test me and tell me what I already know. But sometimes we need to be told what we already know.

Jake Mullins  17:51  

Right? Exactly. It's nice to have confirmation right?

Dalyn Hazell  17:54  

Yeah, we as humans we sometimes do things that we don't want to do just because we're you know, we're told to do it or we got you know, bad advice somewhere. So we need that agent or that second opinion to tell us what we already know sometimes and then definitely to your point, I mean, to keep us from investing in bad areas or you know, a rough title issue you name it, there's so many things you're going to encounter in real estate investing that it'd be nice to have a real estate agent with you for at least those first few deals.

Jake Mullins  18:24  

Yeah, for sure. And you know, I've got some that you know, I know investors that will not they're there, they're not licensed and they will not do a deal without an agent by their side because they're focused on their business or focused on other things they want to make wise investments and it's like hey, just like I would pay a plumber to fix my sink I'm gonna have a real estate agent by my side and not try to you know, DIY it and end up in a mass So yeah, that's why

Dalyn Hazell  18:53  

I don't like the notion of reducing agent commissions. I mean, no one likes to pay the going rate but it can save you so much money in the long run for sure.

Jake Mullins  19:03  

Well, and the other thing too, is if you're not in the business, you look at real estate commissions and you're like, Man, you make a lot of money. It's like, man, I have a lot of expenses. Yeah. So it's like, it's not what you think it is. And you know, like those tools like Zillow, like where do you think that gets paid for well ultimately gets paid for through agent commissions, like everything that that happens is paid for somewhere. And it comes from agent commissions. That's the only source of income for the real estate industry. So you got to understand that there's a lot that goes into it.

Dalyn Hazell  19:35  

If you're if your Commission's 3% probably 1% go into marketing one person is going to your broker and then you're only keeping 1% may be after taxes so definitely, it's people need to you know, appreciate real estate agents for what they do and realize that So, I want to flip the head there then what should an agent be looking for in an investor because the typical like horror scene is when an investor You know, takes the agent around to a bunch of $30,000 houses and then then doesn't make a decision. So what should an agent be looking for in an investor?

Jake Mullins  20:10  

I always try to find what somebody's motivation is not what they're looking for, but just what they're, you know, trying to get an overall feeling for, their financial goals and their strategy. Because when you start so many people will focus on the property and the search criteria, they fail to step back and say, so why are you investing? Like, what are your goals? Tell me about what this looks like in three years and five years, and you start to figure out how serious somebody is. Because I've dealt with a lot of tire kickers, and I try to ferret that out as quickly as possible, you know, I'll take you out, I'll show you properties. But I'm also not going to be taken advantage of for somebody that just wants to go out and, and look and think and not really act. So that question about motivations, an important one. But I'll tell you, one of the biggest things I look for in an investor, kind of going back to the conversation we just had, is somebody that's willing to listen, you know, I'm, you know, in this transaction, I'm the professional, you know, so I've got like, I got a client, that's a doctor, right? And he's an investor. Well, listen, if I get sick, I'm coming to you. And I'm listening to everything you have to say, when it comes to real estate, I want you to listen to me, because this is all I do. And I pride myself on a ton of continuing education, I am really good at what I do. So believe me, if you have questions, I'm going to have the answers or I'm going to find them. And so I want that relationship where somebody is willing to listen to me and follow my advice and follow my lead.

Dalyn Hazell  21:47  

I bet it's nice when you have clients like that, who are truly humble and willing to listen, and take your advice, for sure. So that's all I'm

Jake Mullins  21:54  

here to break them. Sometimes they come in like wild stallions, like Oh, I know everything, I've read this stuff. And I've been on Zillow, and it's like, Alright, we're gonna have a little conversation, because it ain't gonna be like this for long if we're gonna work together.

Dalyn Hazell  22:06  

That's all I'm trying to do here is just expose some things that that agents are looking for in investors, because, you know, we don't want to be that troublesome client, or we don't want to be your worst client, we want to truly grow with you and succeed with you. So anything we can do as investors to make the real estate agents job easier, is a plus. I want to talk about the MLS and getting deals on the MLS for investors in 2021. We're starting to see signs of the market cooling, but things are still red hot. When you sent me there were just some headlines, probably it was just so it's not really reflective of the industry. So assuming, you know, deals are still really hard to come by on the MLS, how can investors get the competitive edge? You know, in this crazy hot market?

Jake Mullins  22:58  

The first thing I tell people is that I have a mindset discussion with somebody if they're looking to invest right now. And what I try to find out is are they really serious about buying. So if I've got an investor and they're like, Oh, I'm only gonna buy something, if I can get it, you know, you know, 70% ARV or something like that. It's like, dude, you're out. And if you have no idea what that means that's after renovation value, sorry, technical term. So if you're new to investing, just disregard that. But a lot of times, I'll have investors that are like, Oh, I only want something if I can get a deal if I can get a discount. And I'll tell him right now is not the right time. And if you want to go out and look and try to find it, you're probably going to be disappointed. And I'm probably not the agent for you. So let's wait. Or let's change your mindset and just understand that the market is different. Because everybody, I think one of the big challenges right now is a lot of investors, they look at the market like man, the markets go crazy, and it's topped out. I don't believe that's the case, I don't even think we're close. I'm kind of a financial nerd. And the inflation that we're probably going to experience over the next five to 10 years. We're going to look back on this period and say, Man, I wish I would have bought real estate back then. I remember. I remember back in 2010, when real estate was kind of on the floor. I remember people saying, Oh my god, don't buy real estate. It's such a bad investment. Guess who all the rich people are right now, people who bought real estate back in 2010. You know, so I don't think there are probably pockets where, you know there's going to be a collapse in pricing or correction and pricing. But I happen to live in one of those markets where people are moving to and there's a lot of economic development so big businesses, Texas ministers are coming here. And I think that this issue is only going to be compounded in the, at the heart of this Dalyn is supply and demand. And I have this conversation with people all the time. If you look at nationally right now, there's about a five and a half million house shortage based on demand. So, you know, I've read some really detailed stuff on Inman and some of the other, you know, real estate rags, we're about five and a half million homes short. And that's based on people looking to rent that are ready and willing and able to buy. That's a massive shortage. And then when you look at like, particular market, so, you know, there's a surplus in Detroit guys, like in the areas where people want to move to, that inequity can be even harder, in new construction, just not keeping up. So you're gonna have inflation resale, because the supply and demand issue is going to, I think it's going to continue for years. And I'm not giving you financial advice, given my little license disclaimer, I don't, I don't think this is going to get any better. And then new construction, of course, you've got inflation just through the cost of labor and materials and all that stuff. So you know, for me, it starts with mindset, I have to get somebody that's willing to go there in this market, pay what they would consider full price or appraised value or even higher. You know, right now, there's a lot of people that are investors that are going to make a lot of money that are going in putting cash offers out with no appraisal contingency, or with guarantees to pay 10 20,000 or, you know, to 3% over appraised value, whatever the market dictates. And people look at and say, Man, that's crazy. But in five years, when that property is worth, you know, 35-50% more than they bought it for, they're going to be like, who's who's silly?

Dalyn Hazell  26:53  

Yeah, every generation struggles with this. They think that their real estate markets are at its peak, or the stock markets are at their peak, and so they hold off, and they don't invest, and then five years later, they're kicking themselves. So it's definitely a mindset thing. And I mean, I just think of deals that I've missed out on over like 5000 bucks, you know, it's just crazy to think that, man, I didn't come to an agreement over 5000 bucks or 10,000 bucks when, yeah, you have to run your numbers and be conservative and get it right in a property. But still, I mean, man, think if, if you hold on to that property for 510 20 years, like you really can't lose, so do what's right with your numbers. But you need to be a little forgiving of this current market and not expect to basically steal a property. And if you want to get those really, really good deals, then do some off market marketing. But if we're talking about the MLS here, so with real estate agents, the deals are just harder to come by. But it doesn't mean we stop investing or stop buying for sure. And

Jake Mullins  27:57  

I think going back to your question on MLS, I still think that there's opportunity with distressed properties. But that's not for everybody. Or your last guest talked about the BRRRR method, which I like for investing. But for first time investors that may not be the right model, because if you haven't listened to that episode, yet, it's you buy the house, but then you have to renovate it before you rent it out. And that can be good because you can build in some equity with that renovation, but that requires more cash, you know, so if you've got that $40,000 investment, that may be all you have. And so what you gotta do is you got to buy something that's turnkey, that you can put a renter in, you don't have the cash to put 40,000 down, and then go spend another 30 40,000 and renovations before you can put a renter into it. But if you do have that kind of loose cash around, there's still opportunity with distressed properties, you know, if there's a distressed property, I've listed a few and bought a few. They're not getting, you know, 15 2030 offers there, and they are sitting on the market for a few days still even in this environment. So I would tell people, if you are looking for a quote unquote deal, or something that there might be a little bit more instant equity opportunity. There's still distressed sales that are happening.

Dalyn Hazell  29:17  

Yeah, I'm all about getting in light of a property with as far as instant equity, like you said, and it protects us as investors in case there is a market correction. But it's much more likely to get that type of deal when it is distressed because you're singling out, you're removing all of the retail homebuyers who just want to get in and live there for personal purposes. And you're at that point you're really competing with investors, which a lot of investors are hungry out there on the MLS right now. So it's still competitive, but you have a higher chance if you are willing to put in some rehab work there.

Jake Mullins  29:56  

I also tell people one of the things when it comes to investing . As I tell people to cross county lines, and I'll give you a great example, this one of the counties that we serve as a primary market for us, it's absolutely booming. You know, Amazon put a distribution center here, there's some tech companies that are moving here that the Chamber of Commerce and the Development Authority have been really proactive about bringing business. So the county is hot, it's smokin hot. But guess what's going to happen at some point, we're going to run out of county. So where are people going to go, they're going to go right across county lines. And there's still some really good buys where, you know, average days on market in the county might be two or three, because of the crazy market conditions, you cross over. And you still got, you know, average days on market of, you know, seven, maybe 14 days, depending on the county. And there you can find some more reasonable buys. And if you've got time, you don't need liquidity. You don't need to cash out immediately. Those can be some incredible opportunities for long term growth.

Dalyn Hazell  31:00  

Yeah, absolutely. You have to go where the shortage is. And like you said earlier, there's a shortage of housing right now. And anybody that's wealthy, took advantage of a shortage in their career. So if you started a big business idea you went to where the customers were willing to pay for that idea. And there was a gap in the market. And we're doing that today as real estate investors, we're finding opportunities due to a shortage of housing and a shortage of rental properties. And investors are making out well on that.

Jake Mullins  31:30  

Yeah, they are. Yeah, and is one of the other things too, is we're talking about the MLS in this current market condition. One of the biggest things that I tell people, whether they're looking to invest, or if they're just looking to buy, is just don't give up, man, be persistent, just keep driving, it's a numbers game. As an investor, you might have to put 100 offers out before you get one. So put 100 offers out, don't just throw your hands up and say, it's not going to work, you know, keep pushing, not that I want to go show somebody 100 houses to get one sale. But you know what I mean? It's just it is what it is, and, you know, sometimes just gotta keep driving. And all of a sudden, when you least expected an opportunity falls in your lap. And bang, there you go.

Dalyn Hazell  32:11  

Hmm. So as far as the actual tactics and strategies of getting a deal, or increasing your chances of getting a deal on an on market property? Are there any kind of strategies? Or is it just whoever pays the most at the end of the day?

Jake Mullins  32:26  

There are some strategies, and it's probably going to sound really simplistic, but it the couple of these things are not. And I'm going to tell you, one of the most important, and I kid you not, this is so critical. And I don't hear people talk about this in the investment communities enough. The reputation of your agent, and their ability to build a relationship with the listing agent is frickin critical. And I can't tell you how many times I've won deals for my clients that I should not have one. Only because I called I built that relationship. When I put an offer in whether it's for me or for a client, I call that listing agent. And I say, Tell me what's most important to your client? If I'm going to craft the perfect offer? What does it look like? What is the closing date? Did I need post closing occupancy? Do they need, you know, some special stipulations that might make this work. And if all that is foreign, talk to your agent, they'll guide you through it. But you want to make sure that you are doing everything you can to be attentive to the seller, to build that relationship with the listing agent and let them know, I'm going to get you to close one of the secrets in this market right now. And you don't, you don't see this, if you're not a licensed agent in our market I'm and I've run numbers on this we're seeing about somewhere between 35 and 40% of all contracts fall through on the first offer. So houses go up, they go under contract, and about 35 to 40% of those are falling apart. The reason why you don't see it is so many times we accept a backup offer so we never take the property back to market. So the MLS and Zillow never showed that the property went back up for sale, it just immediately switched to that backup offer. So that's why it's really critical to build that relationship with the listing agent because they need to know that you're not going to be that one that backs out. You know, when they're sitting there and their client says, Okay, Mr. Agent, we've got 15 offers. Which one should we take, and you're like, you should pick this one. And then that particular deal falls through three days later, they look at you and they say Why did you tell me to accept that one, you know, so that's that's a really critical thing. And then you ask yourself, Well, why are these deals falling apart? Well, you got a mentality mismatch that I see every day. So you get a buyer and they come in and they're paying a premium price. They're they're offering over asking there. They might be doing zero due diligence. They might be, you know, paying 10,000 or 20,000 over appraised value if it doesn't appraise that, or they're getting super aggressive, then they do their inspection and they find issues with the property. And I'm like, Well, I want you to fix it. I'm paying you a ton of money for your house. And I don't want a water heater that's leaking, or I don't want to HVC such minutes, that's not working. So they've got that mentality. And then you've got the seller that's like, I got 15 offers, you can go to hell. Yeah. So they get it, they get in this mismatch, and then it falls apart. And we're seeing it time and time again. So the reputation of your agent and their ability to build that relationship is really, really important.

Dalyn Hazell  35:42  

I love that question. What's most important to your seller? That's brilliant. And yeah, it's what we can use for off the market like finding out what's the most important thing because it may not be the highest price, it may be a quick close, it may be no inspections. And so we just have to do our due diligence on that and figure that out. That'll give us more deals.

Jake Mullins  36:01  

I had one that they were like, they would love to rent a house back for six months. Okay, I said rent, not just stay there for free, rent it back for six months. Yeah. Done.

Dalyn Hazell  36:11  

Because they're probably worried about where they're going to live after that. 

Jake Mullins  36:14  

Well, if there was an extenuating circumstance, I remember exactly what it was. But my buyer had no issue with that at all. And it's like, yeah, I'm gonna run it back. Yeah, no issues. And we ended up winning it like 5% lower than the highest offer, because we had the term that was important to him. So it is critical man. And I'll tell you, here's the secret. And this is what everybody needs to know. I list a lot of properties. Do you know how many agents call and ask me that question? If I had to put a number on it, I'd say it's probably less than 5%. So if your agent calls me up and says, hey, how can we win what's most important to your seller, you know, we'd love to work with you, I feel confident my buyers are gonna close your offer to the top of the list. And I'm giving special consideration. I'm telling my client, hey, their agent is going above and beyond. And that gives me warmth and fuzzies because it's typically a game of inches, right? You had all these offers that are really, really close well, which ones are sticking out? Well, I spent an hour on the phone with this agent. And they made me feel really really comfortable about their buyers. They gave me context about their family situation, why they're buying a house and why they want this one. And then I got some people that won't even return my phone call.

Dalyn Hazell  37:26  

Yeah, because your main objective is to please the seller anyway. So if you could have a buyer's agent that does that for you then Wow, it's just icing on the cake. Of course and I think you mentioned a good point, I have always put in a backup offer. I don't know if you said it that way. But as investors even if, let's say your property is already under contract or spoken for, don't be afraid to put in a backup offer because like you said 30 40% fall out and to save face the listing agent or the seller a lot of times will not put it back on market because that that will look bad. So they'll accept that backup offer so if we're there we can be the accepted offer.

Jake Mullins  38:04  

I'd say that I say that to people all the time I in fact, I've been telling a lot of people sometimes a backup offer is more important than the primary and I had one I had a client this was not an investor This was her primary residence but we had one in a sober competitive price range they listed to house we went in we put in an offer and she wasn't a cash buyer she was FHA was, you know, in terms of offers it wasn't the strongest they had like 70 offers on this house. So I knew they weren't going to pick our offer. I was just waiting for the call. And again I reached out. I was building that relationship with the listing agent doing all the right things and she called me up and she said hey listen, I really appreciate everything you've done but of course we accepted another offer and I said great how many backup offers do you have? Zero I said I'll have you one in five minutes. Five minutes I had her that offer they accepted our backup offer 30 minutes later she called me and said our primary just terminated wow I mean my client was over the moon she's like how in the world did we get this house and I said you did not blink you listened and you put in the backup offer and I preach it to everybody I when I start working with a client I talked to him about backup offers on the first day because in this market you got to be in the mentality to do that and you got to be willing to go quickly before they accept another backup offer.

Dalyn Hazell  39:32  

Yeah these things are so simple and complicated and we think there's a million different strategies but there may just only be a handful of strategies if you just implemented them that nobody else is doing. You could be successful and just that

Jake Mullins  39:44  

In it, nuts man I got a listing in a really, really hot neighborhood in our community. And we're under contract. I never got a backup offer. I had tons of offers. I called all the agents saying hey listen, I don't have any backup offers, send them over. Now one could not believe

Dalyn Hazell  40:00  

So what do you do in a scenario where there's no backup offer, you just select the next best one?

Jake Mullins  40:05  

Well, you have to, on the listing side, you have to have somebody submit a backup offer. And if they don't, if your primary terminates, at least in the state of Georgia, you know, state laws can be very, very different. But in the state of Georgia, you have to put it back on market immediately. So it goes back to MLS. Okay, awesome. And then you get 30 offers again, so if you would have been that one person that said, Hey, I'll give you a backup offer. You're not competing again, it's yours.

Dalyn Hazell  40:31  

That's super insightful. So to all the investors out there, make sure your agent is one building rapport with the listing agent into submitting a backup offer for you, individually or anything else. So

Jake Mullins  40:41  

you won't want Jake secrets. Okay. This is a secret for investors, and you can send me your royalty checks. Does your agent look in MLS and a hot sheet every day? Everybody looks for what is just listed? What price changed, right? I look at what went under contract, because our MLS shows us that every day what went under contract, call them every single one of them. Do you have backup offers? No. Okay, cool. Just go through and find who doesn't have backup offers, if you have investors have them go in and throw offers in. And you will be shocked at how many don't have backup offers. And how you can go in with just a normal offer, Hey, I'll give you an asking price with No Steps normal due diligence. And because they don't have a backup offer, they'll take it because they think it will be leveraged against a really crazy offer that they just got. But what they don't realize is that the person might have buyer's remorse and just turn around and terminate for no reason. And then it's like, I'm under contract. Oh, yeah.

Dalyn Hazell  41:42  

Well, we probably find that buyers have fallen out of contract more than ever, just because prices are so Hi, you know, the findings line up? Or who knows. So a lot of more people falling out of contract gives us opportunities for those backup offers. And then, of course, appraisals are causing a lot of them to fall apart too.

Jake Mullins  42:00  

Yeah, because, you know, a lot of times, you know, people will put a stipulation in there about you know, I'll do $10,000 over appraised value or whatever, and then come to find out that the house was wildly overpriced. And I typically will do a CMA, if I'm putting an offer in just to tell somebody like, Hey, I think they're on the money for their pricing or their way over. And I do not expect us to appraise so we might see some rough waters ahead. But yeah, we see that a lot too. So just being there and being ready to fall apart. And if you use a hot sheet to try to find out who went under contract and just go out and say, Hey, you got backups sent on your way. You know, you'd be surprised what gets accepted?

Dalyn Hazell  42:38  

Yeah. Well, you've kind of gone over so many of the positives of having an agent and it almost seems silly to ask, but do you think at any point in investing maybe after their first few deals? should go ahead and get their real estate license themselves? Or do you think they should leave that up to the professionals who do it day in and day out?

Jake Mullins  42:56  

Great question. And here's my answer to that. If you are not going to actively practice real estate, meaning selling for other people, don't do it. Not worth your time. And here's why I say that, can you save yourself commission? Yes. But that's not why you use a professional. You use a professional because they know the market better than anybody. If they're good. Now, there's a lot of bad agents, which you know, and I know too, because I got to deal with them every day. But if you're dealing with a true Pro, it's not worth it just to save the commission, because when you go and get your real estate license, you learn all these things over here, and then you get to practice real estate, and you get to do all these other things. And, you know, so a lot, I mean, you're learning about some archaic laws, you know, whether or not you use metes and bounds for your, you know, your property lines, and as far as if they're things they like, it's nice to know. And of course, I got to know this law, but not practical application stuff. So if you're not going to be out doing this on a regular basis, and helping other people and really getting your hands dirty, I don't think it makes sense, not just to save a few bucks on commission, because what you could ultimately cost yourself is way more.

Dalyn Hazell  44:17  

Yeah, you definitely cost yourself way more for sure. And it's like going to the doctor and trying to save on prescription like I'm going to go make my own prescription or I mean nothing, it can't be done. There's a lot of investor agents out there. But you have to delegate, you have to learn to delegate to get wealthy and you can't be all the rules. You can't wear all the hats in your business. So if it makes sense to be an agent, find it like that's your prerogative. But if not, then leave it to a professional and, you know, pay them accordingly.

Jake Mullins  44:49  

If you're going to get a license just to buy and sell your own real estate. You need to do a lot of volume for it to make sense because this is just one of those things where I mean, I'll give you a great example. The market that I'm operating in today is much different than the market I was operating in a year ago, two years ago, I wouldn't know what a good deal looks like, I wouldn't know where the trends are moving to, I wouldn't know a lot of things, if I wasn't doing this day in and day out, in. And what that does for me, as a pro, is when I'm sitting there, and I've got listings getting fed to me, you'd be surprised how fast I can identify something and say, I want to buy that. You know, just because I know the neighborhood, that's a three bedroom Ranch, I know what the rents are over there, and what their listing price is. I can look at the pictures and say I need to do some kitchen, kitchen works and bathroom more. I'm in, I'm going to go look at the house I'm in. You can't have that train die if you're not in there doing it every day, and helping other people. So that's why I say I mean, can you do it? Yeah. But it's one of those things where it's like, it's not worth it. You know, why? Why do that to try to save the cash, because typically, all you're gonna save is 3% by doing it yourself, because, you know, most of the time, there's going to be a listing agent on the other side. And, you know, so you're gonna save yourself three, or 3% of the purchase price for what, you know, if you miss out on the investment opportunity of a lifetime, because you didn't have that pro in your corner. It's probably not worth it.

Dalyn Hazell  46:29  

Yeah, and decisiveness is so key to get in on the best deals fast. And so if you have somebody that knows what a good deal is, at first glance, and they're like, okay, hey, you should go put an offer on this like that can be worth its weight in gold.

Jake Mullins  46:45  

And if you build a really good relationship, where there's a lot of trust, and that agent that you use has, has shown you, they have shown you their competence, and you know that they're good, you can build a relationship to a point to where your agent calls you and says, there's a five bedroom that just came up in this neighborhood for 325. And the investor says put the offering done like they're not only need to see it, just put it in. And you can get to that level where you've got a pro in your corner that you know is going to be watching out for that stuff. And then you're focused on whatever it is you do: doctoring, loitering, or just sitting back watching the cash rolling because you're a full time investor. I mean, whatever it is, you got somebody that's doing that work for you.

Dalyn Hazell  47:35  

Yeah. Great points and a lot of good takeaways from this episode for sure. Especially the backup offer hack, I'm gonna immediately start implementing that one for sure.

Jake Mullins  47:45  

Send me the royalty checks, bro.

Dalyn Hazell  47:49  

All right, this next part of the show is the triple threat. And it's the same three questions we ask each guest. So what has been the app or tool that has been the biggest game changer in your business? Oh,

Jake Mullins  48:03  

the biggest app. That's been a game changer, my business has to be a CRM. And if you don't know what a CRM is, it's a customer relationship management system. And we're, I mean, in this market specifically you got so much going on. Your pipeline is bigger, you have so many people looking at houses, just having something to keep you organized is just a killer app. And one no matter what your business is having some sort of application like that, where you can manage your relationship with people and make sure you're not dropping the ball on follow up and that you're touching the people that you need to touch and keeping those relationships alive after the sale, that sort of thing. It can be worth its weight in gold. Yeah,

Dalyn Hazell  48:47  

sales takes so many touches. And if you aren't tracking that if you're not keeping track of every conversation you've had, then you're going to lose out the competition. Definitely. Number two, what has been the biggest learning lesson in the last year? And why do you think that happened?

Jake Mullins  49:04  

Oh, in the last year, I'd say the biggest learning lesson is to turn off the news and stay focused. There, there is so much garbage on the news and social media. And it is so easy even for somebody that's got a really positive mindset, and always focused on trying to drive that stuff that can drag you down so fast. So I tell people all the time, I am blissfully ignorant. I have no idea what the hell's going on. And I don't care. I'm focused on my family. I'm focused on my friends. I'm focused on sitting around a campfire and enjoying life. And I'm focused on my business. And I don't really care what's going on in the social media world, what's trending, what's on the news, because it's just really difficult. And that has allowed me there's so many people, I'll talk to you like Aren't you worried about this? When you're worried about time? Like, no, I'm having a great month? Like, I don't know what you're worried about, but I'm feeling pretty good.

Dalyn Hazell  50:07  

Yeah, it's great to be strategically ignorant about certain things. And yeah, I do have people in my life where I always know what bad is happening in the world when I'm around them. They're not sure, yeah, they just always know what's bad, and another country or different state, and I'm just like, Why get bogged down with that, like, I mean, that we do need to be sort of aware of what's going on, but not if it's not going to help us or those around us, like, be more focused on what you you can control and you'll make a lot bigger splash or good in the world. Then, the other way?

Jake Mullins  50:39  

Sure, the funny thing is that if you heed my advice and do this, I never feel like I'm completely out of the loop because people will tell you what's going on. But because you're not being bombarded with the negative message and you kind of hear people talk about it from different perspectives, you'll realize that the real answer is probably somewhere in the middle. And the sky is not falling like people want you to think it is. So it's like, you watch the news. And they're the world that they paint looks horrible, then you go outside and you look around you like, but it doesn't look that way to my eyes. So what did I miss? So? Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, it's important to know certain things, you know, I do keep up on the economy. I do keep up on real estate stuff, but I just don't have time for all that negativity, man. Yeah, bad for the soul.

Dalyn Hazell  51:27  

It is. Question number three, our podcast is all about helping others achieve freedom with real estate investing, whether that's financial, lifestyle, or otherwise. So what does freedom mean to you?

Jake Mullins  51:38  

Freedom to me, is what I just experienced the other day. And I was going to do some real estate work. And I looked outside and said, I'm not doing that today. And I just did some stuff around the house, I fixed some things and just enjoyed myself. And I, for the longest time felt like I could not like every year, it at&t, I gave up vacation time because I felt like I couldn't take it because I wasn't committed enough. And freedom to me, it's just doing what you want, when you want. I take on projects that I want to, I help people that I want to, you know, I don't have to take a client on, I don't have to go do this. I don't have to go sell a house today. I do it because I want to. And so for me freedom is finding out how to live your life where you're doing the things you want to. I'm not lazy. I work my butt off. But I work when I want where I want with who I want. And that to me is freedom.

Dalyn Hazell  52:41  

Yeah, I mean, in the past, it was all about, you know, making ends meet. But today we live in so much abundance. It's more about meaningful work. That's the currency. It's exactly right, man. All right, well, that's a great way to end it. Where can listeners get a hold of you on the interweb? Well, if

Jake Mullins  52:58  

you're interested in real estate specific stuff, you can go to my website Mullens, pro realty calm, very easy to find m u l l i n s. But if you'd love to have some fun, check us out at the beer business podcast. You can go to www dot beer dot business, or you can find it on any podcast app.

Dalyn Hazell  53:19  

Yeah, sounds like a fun podcast. I'd have to go give it a listen and it sounds like you're doing a lot better than I am. And you're so

Jake Mullins  53:27  

keep plugging away man. That was it. This has been a love affair. But again, I just love entrepreneurs and love supporting them. And it's been a wild ride, man. It's been so much fun. I've met so many really, really smart people. And yeah, we have fun doing it, man. So hopefully you have a laugh or two.

Dalyn Hazell  53:43  

Yeah, we'll do it. Alright, Jake has been a pleasure and you've been a great guest and thank you for sharing your knowledge about Reality and real estate investing to all of the listeners. 

Jake Mullins  53:52  

Appreciate it, Dalyn. Have a good one. 

Outro  53:55  

Thank you for listening to the real estate investing for freedom podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave us a review and tune in next week for the next episode.