119 Units and Financially Free at 23 Years Old | Michael Bowman

In this episode, Dalyn Hazell sits down with Michael Bowman and they discuss about mindset, how to find more deals, how he grew his portfolio so fast and how you can replicate his accomplishments.

Michael Bowman is a real estate professional at Murney Associates, Realtors. He is a husband, father, and church elder. Michael is a natural-born salesman at heart, he returned to the US and hit the ground running. He acquired a 32 unit apartment complex by age 23. He is the author of the books H.U.S.T.L.E. Then Repeat, Ds of the Deal, and 2020 Silver Linings: Brighter Than It Seemed:.

Key takeaways from this episode:

-How to find deals

-The different approaches to finding deals

-How to fund a deal

-How to get the 119 units at $84,000 cost

-How to create instant equity

-The best way to raise equity in a property

-How to look attractive to the banks

-The two hardest things in real estate and a lot more!

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Connect with Guest, Michael Bowman:

Email: Mbowman@murney.com

Phone Number: 4178656500

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realtorbowman/

Website: https://mikebowman.murney.com/

Connect with the Host, Dalyn Hazell:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dalyn.hazell/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dhazell24/

Email: dalyndhazell@gmail.com

Transcript

Introduction  0:00  

This is the real estate investing for Freedom podcast, where we bring on the experts to teach you the golden nuggets of real estate investing. So you can escape the rat race and start living life on your terms. Now, here's your host, Dalyn Hazell.

Dalyn Hazell  0:18  

Hey everyone, and thank you for tuning back into another episode. I'm very honored and privileged to bring back our first repeat guest. And it's none other than Mike Bowman. He was on episode number one of the show our most popular episode that got the most downloads. And I think people were really inspired at where he was at his age. And you might want to hold on to your seat because you just may fall out of your chair, knowing how much he has done and accomplished since then, I think you're going to be just in awe. But also, we talked about how you can replicate that. And we talk a lot about mindset, and how he found these deals, how he grew so fast. And so our hope is to inspire you into action in the same results. So before we get into the actual nuts and bolts of the episode, this is a portion of the show, I like to call the golden nugget of the day, where I share with you one quick tidbit of knowledge that's working for my guests. And so that is as your portfolio grows, stop being the jack of all trades. And by that I mean most of the time new real estate investors, they convince themselves that they're just going to manage the property themselves. And that's fine if you have the time, energy, and know-how. But as your number of rental units grows, you will probably need to outsource this task. And that will obviously come at a cost. But Mike Bowman knew that once he got to a certain unit count, he had to outsource that task because he didn't like it or he didn't have time for it. His time was better suited out there looking for deals and making connections. And so outsourcing your property management is sometimes one of the first things that you'll do, even if you only have a small amount of units. Now, admittedly, it's not wrong to self-manage, I self-manage. And I have a unit count in mind where once I exceed that, I'm going to outsource property management. But until then, I like managing it. But when the headaches get too big or when my time is better suited in other areas, then I will outsource that task. And so that's our golden nugget of the day. And with all that being said, I think there's nothing else to address. I'm going to welcome Mike Bowman back to the microphone. It's going to be an awesome episode. Please enjoy. And stay tuned. Welcome back to the show. Michael Bowman. It's good to have you back. If you guys don't know Mike was on Episode One of the podcast, which was our most popular so far, he got to share his story on how he acquired a 32 unit apartment complex at age 23. But in this episode, I thought I'd bring him back on for an update to see where he's at and where he's going from here. So welcome to the show, Mike. 

Michael Bowman  2:59  

Hey, guys, and thanks for having me again Dalyn. Always a pleasure.

Dalyn Hazell  3:03  

You bet. So Mike, talk to us about you know how your portfolio has changed. If anybody's curious about how you kind of built the front end of your portfolio, they can listen to episode one but talk about how your portfolio has really changed and I would dare say exploded since we last spoke when you had that 32 unit apartment complex?

Michael Bowman  3:22  

Man, that's a great question. And we could be here all day. So my portfolio has gone nowhere. But up since we last talked, I believe on our last podcast that we did together, which was about a year ago. We're close to it. We talked about how I acquired a bunch of houses, sold them as a package, built some self-storage, and acquired a 32 unit apartment complex. Now all of that sold, and I have one big nest egg 119 unit apartment complex. So that's what my focus is right now is that 119 unit apartment complex. It's spread out over 10 buildings, and they're all within a quarter-mile of each other. It's just building after building. It's on two major highways here in my town, Springfield. So we'll get into a little bit more about how I acquired it. But that's where I'm at right now is 119 unit apartment complex. 10 buildings all right next to each other great location is a great deal.

Dalyn Hazell  4:25  

Yeah, that's amazing. And the fact that you own them,  outright you and your family. I mean, that just speaks volumes to how far you've come and how you've just exploded. Let's talk about that. So obviously, we listeners probably want to know, there's multiple parts to getting a deal and securing it.  you have to find the deal. You have to fund the deal and you have to manage the deal. So let's dive into the first part of that, finding the deal, and then we'll just go from there. 

Michael Bowman  4:54  

So finding the deal was honestly the hardest part. A lot of people say unreal Real Estate,  it's hard to get money and financing, I would, I would venture to say that the hardest part is finding the deal. There are a ton of people with money in America and different countries across the world, there are tons of people with money. But the people with deals are a little more limited. So we'll backspace a little bit. And like Dalyn mentioned, I had a 32 unit apartment complex, I got an offer that I couldn't refuse to sell it. So I accepted the offer. And about a month into accepting that offer, I realized I was screwed. I was making all this money on the sale of my 32 unit apartment. But there was nothing else for me to buy. I mean, literally, for six months, my full-time job was finding a replacement property. So I could reinvest that 32 unit apartment complex profit. And for six months, it was looking like it was a no-go, I wasn't finding anything. I mean multifamily, there was nothing available package of houses, nothing available out. Literally every day I woke up, and I made calls, I pounded the pavement, I drove around my city, trying to find a deal that I could parlay my profits into. So that was the artist’s part. And along the way, I was getting names from different investors and friends and bankers saying, Hey, this guy might sell something, or hey, this guy has a couple of apartments he might sell, or, Hey, this guy has a couple of commercial buildings. So along the way, my friends and my family, my acquaintances, they were all supportive. And I think it's really important to have good people around you, that makes all the difference. So one of my banker buddies has been trying to get me to do a loan with him for a long time for years. And I kept telling them, Hey, you got to bring me a deal, you gotta bring me a deal. If you bring me a good project, I'll finance it with you. So this banker, a good guy, good friend, he's one of the ones who gave me a list of a few names along the way of potential sellers, I tracked down every single person that he gave me on that list like I did with every other name, every other list that my friends and family were given me. And it took a few months to follow up. But I finally was able to make contact with one of the people on my banker’s list. And that's how I was introduced to the seller of the 119 unit apartment complexes. So it was very, very hard, it took six months total, I mean, I was losing sleep, because I didn't want to pay taxes, because like when you flip an apartment building like I was doing with my 32 unit, there's gonna be a ton of taxes unless you can do what's called the 1031 tax exchange and move the money immediately into another asset. So I was losing sleep, it was a stressful situation. But luckily, I had good people, good family, and friends around me that were helping me out. And through all my follow up, I was able to connect with the seller of the 119 units.

Dalyn Hazell  7:58  

That is so cool. So I mean, a lot of people I think talk about rubbing shoulders with agents and brokers. But you decided to take a little bit different approach, put all your feelers out there. But you also found this deal with your banker, which I think is really unique, you don't hear about that a lot. And you also express urgency.  you had this urgency of you had to find this replacement property. And so you just took action every day. And I think that's what a lot of people can take away from this. And practically speaking, I mean, it's harder to find an apartment building for sale than it is a single-family home just because there are fewer of them. And I think that the sellers are more sophisticated. Definitely, if they're investors. So then So you've now found the deal now. And then did you fund the entire purchase of that property with the profit and proceeds of your 32 unit sale? Is that how you funded the deal?

Michael Bowman  8:47  

Yeah, so of course, to buy 119 apartment units, you're gonna need to get a loan for it, unless you're like Warren Buffett or something like that. But for me, I definitely got a loan for it, and I put a down payment. And to answer your question, I was able to fund the entire downpayment out of the sale of my 32 units, besides $84,000. So that difference between all of my profits on the 32 unit sale, and getting into the 119 unit, the difference that I had to bring to closing was $84,000. So I think that was great because I essentially went from a 32 unit apartment to 119 units for $84,000, which is it's freaking insane. And I know Dalyn and I have talked about this off of the air in the past, but I was able to get into my 32 unit apartment with no money down because I was able to use other bank finance money for the down payment. Maybe that's something we'll get into a little bit later, maybe another day, but I was able to get into my 32 unit for no money down, and then I was able to trade up from the 32 to the 119 unit for 84,000. So basically, if you look back on the last three years My wife and I real estate investing, we got into 119 units and only cost us $84,000.

Dalyn Hazell  10:07  

Yeah, that's just bananas. And like, I can't even express how cool that is on the show. I mean, I wish we had a video for this, because I'm just like, my job is just on the floor. Because when you think about the power of real estate, you don't think about this. I mean, going from literally nothing to 32, and then 119, which is 84,000 out of pocket. And that just speaks to finding the right deals, creating that instant equity. Explain how you created instant equity. And in that property, because you found it obviously, below market value, and then talk about like how you could have immediately resold that 119 units or part of that for like a multi-million dollar profit.

Michael Bowman  10:49  

So the best way to raise equity when you have an investment property that has rental income is to raise the rents. So luckily, these 119 units that they recently purchased, the rents are all low. I mean, it depends on what market you're listening from. It's hard to imagine that rents are going for $320 a month at an apartment facility. And I'll tell you, I can show you my rent roll. I have people renting from me, they're paying $320 a month for a two-bedroom apartment. I mean, that's just freak in insane. They need to be  750 800 or,  whatever it is, depending on the update to that unit. But my best equity gain is off of raising the rents or not even raising them per se, but just bringing them up to the market standard. That's the best way you can raise equity in a property is to make sure the rents are on point because sometimes landlords or previous sellers will just let people stay there for years and won't raise the rents. And that's a different play too. But keeping your rents on point is the best way to raise equity in the property. And luckily, I factored all of my numbers and my purchase price off of the current low rents. So every time I raise a rent or every time my property manager does, it's gravy, it's money that I didn't count on because I already underwrote the deal on the lower rent, and it still made sense at the lower rents.

Dalyn Hazell  12:19  

Yeah, raising rents, I mean, obviously I've heard is huge and multifamily as well as rehabbing the property,  paying the outside improving some units is just monumental to getting your appraised value up. Because as we know, in multifamily, the value of the property is determined by the net operating income. And so talk about also how that made you more attractive to the bank and potential buyers because I know you wanted to partition some of those units and sell them off to pay off the loan there.

Michael Bowman  12:51  

That's true. So and I guess this is another way to build equity in a property if you got to buy it right. So luckily, I bought it right. It was a fair deal. The seller was happy, I was happy. The seller bought it 30 years ago, so the seller made a good profit. But just circling back a little bit to the last question, it'll tie into this next one is buying it right is the best way to create equity because you make your money when you buy. So I bought it low and the bank immediately did an appraisal on the property. While we were under contract in the process of closing, and the appraisal came in 12% higher than our contract price, which almost never happens I've never seen it happen this big. So most of the time when an appraiser will see what the purchase price is maybe round up a couple of 1000 bucks and then just appraise it. So it's hard to get a true value on a purchase appraisal. But the appraisal on these apartments came in 12% higher so that alone straight out the gate plus my wife and I put 25% down payment instead of the 20 usual 20% So all between all that us putting a bigger down payment, the appraisal coming in extra high. I mean all made it look very very attractive to the bank, they rolled out the red carpet, we got the best interest rate fixed it for a long time. And you know we're good cash flow position. And I guess that also reminds me that it we essentially Brittany and I could have gotten into this apartment complex for no money down if we wouldn't have put the 25% down payment. So the reason why Brittany and I put the 25% down payment was to get a little bit lower interest rate and keep as much equity in the property as possible. That being said, if we wouldn't have done 25% downpayment, we wouldn't have had to come out of pocket the 84,000 So essentially could have gotten into this 119 unit for zero money down after three years of work instead of 84,000 but we decided to put down as much as we could to keep the payment lower but to circle back and answer your question Baylin we looked attractive to the banks because we did a good downpayment. Then also the appraisal came in good.

Dalyn Hazell  15:02  

Yeah. And as from a banker perspective, I mean, why would you not want to fund that deal, you're gonna have a multi-million dollar loan on your books, which a loan to the bank is actually an asset. So they're getting a significant interest payment, you have a property that right out of the gate appraises for 12% more than the contract price. And then you have an investor like Mike who's willing to go in there and put in the entrepreneurial credit, the sweat equity to get those rents up. So from a banking perspective, yeah, I don't see why they wouldn't ever fund something like this. And that's how you want to look to a bank, whether you're just purchasing is seeing a home, or a duplex, or a 10. Unit, you want to make yourself look as good as you can to the bank. So now that you've got that project,  under contract bought, and funded Mike, how do you manage the deal from there? Because I imagine you're not going to all these different doors and collecting rent monthly and cash, right? So how are you managing that month to month?

Michael Bowman  16:06  

And that's honestly probably the second hardest thing in real estate in these big commercial deals that we're doing. The first like we talked about, the hardest is to find the deal. The second, believe it or not, is to manage the deal after you own it. So I'm not a good property manager, I get pissed off, I get emotionally involved, I am probably not the nicest guy when we get into a little disagreement. So for me, it's hard to manage properties. That's why I hired a full-time property manager to take care of all of these units. So I don't collect any rent. I don't replace any dishwashers, I don't pay anything. I don't do any of the books, I solely, I just take care of the income and expenses, keeping my property manager in check. And obviously paying a few bills here and there. So my day today on the apartments is not that much. It does not consume that much of my time, just because I'm paying somebody else to do it. My time is best used to find more deals and looking forward and flipping and acquiring. And so I'm a salesman, I buy and sell and I love it. I'm not a rental property manager. So that's why I have gotten really big into recently that let people do what they're good at. You take your car to a tire shop, let those guys put on the tire. You go out to eat, you let somebody cook your food, you let a property manager take care of your property. I do what I'm good at. I let other people do what they're good at.

Dalyn Hazell  17:37  

Yeah, that's a really good key concept. Because I think it's possible that early on in one's career,  we're doing everything ourselves, we're wearing every hat. And that's fine for a season. But you learned pretty quickly that once you had some more profits rolling in, you're now focused on divesting your time where it's most suited where you can have the greatest impact, like finding this massive deal. I mean, it wouldn't make sense. If you've built up the skill of finding a deal like this. Why would you then go and take on property management duties like those are two completely different skills? And you only have a certain amount of time in a day to allocate towards real estate. So why do that? That's a good point for sure. So explain what you're doing in the day-to-day now that you're not really needing to have to upkeep on this property so much are you said your salesmen are hard but are you still like buying, selling and flipping with those,  smaller units?

Michael Bowman  18:31  

Yeah, I am. I joke with my wife that Brittany. And she's great. Honestly, I couldn't have done any of this without Brittany, anything business-related since the start. My wife recently went out of town for a friend's wedding. So she was gone for a few days. And I obviously stayed home and took care of our two-year-old baby daughter. And it was a little bit of a reality check to me. Like, obviously, it wasn't the hardest thing in the world, it wasn't the worst thing in the world to take care of my baby for,  a few days, because I love her obviously. And it's so fun playing and driving around. But I did realize that I could have not scaled, I could have not put this much time into work. I could have not packaged up my houses bought a 32 unit spent the six months finding 119 units, none of it would have been possible if I didn't have my wife because she was taking care of all the house stuff and all the baby stuff and everything else on the back end so I could work. So not every relationship is like that. And different relationships have different roles and stuff like that. For my relationship with my wife. It's worked out perfectly. She does what she's good at. I do what I'm good at. And many ways couldn't have done it without Brittany. And nowadays, I buy and sell mostly houses. I buy commercial real estate, I buy houses, I buy packages, I buy land. So I'm a salesman at heart and I'm still buying and selling. My main goal right now is to get those 119 apartment units paid off so you'll know that on commercial loans, usually your interest rate is not fixed for the full term, whether you have it on a 25-year payout or a 20-year payout. Most commercial loans do not fix the interest rate for that long. My interest rate is fixed for 10 years. So I have my property will pay off in 25 years, but every 10 years, it renews interest rate. So my goal is to have those 119 units paid off before that 10-year mark. That way, when interest rates go up like they inevitably will, I'm not going to be renewing at a higher interest rate. I'll just have it paid off the property. So, so long answer a lot of credit to my wife. But to get back to the root answer. I'm still buying and selling houses, commercial, land, lots, anything I can get my hands on, so I can get those 119 units paid down.

Dalyn Hazell  20:53  

Awesome. Yeah.  as a married man myself, it definitely helps when you have a spouse who's onboard and understands your desire and your ambitions. And then that also needs to be reciprocated. I mean, you need to understand their ambitions and their desires and what they need. And so it's a mutual relationship definitely helps when you're on the same page there. So can you give some practical advice for maybe someone out there who has several deals under their belt, because this is kind of an advanced episode? If you're looking for a more introductory episode, check out the number one episode, the interview with Mike Bowman. But for somebody who has several deals under their belt, but wants to scale up and do bigger deals, do you have some tangible advice for somebody to go into like, say houses to larger buildings.

Michael Bowman  21:40  

So tangible advice for scaling up and getting bigger and doing bigger things is it could be summed up in just a few words. The first word is networking, I mean, networking, networking, networking with everybody around you, real estate, investors, bankers, that's how I was able to scale up from a 32 unit apartment to 119 was networking, friends and family, coworkers. And maybe you're thinking you have a couple you have maybe 234 houses or maybe more. And you want to get into maybe a package of houses or maybe a small commercial building or a small apartment or a five Plex, whatever your deal is, whatever you want to scale and get bigger, networking is going to be the most beneficial to you. And second, it brings us back to the entrepreneurial mindset. So just envision what you want, and go for it. I know it's kind of cliche, because everybody always says,  the mindset, money mindset, entrepreneur mindset. It's a little cliche, saying that, but really the way you get in the zone every day makes a big difference. I mean, when I was doing it, and it wasn't even that long ago. Dalyn and I, at this point in time, have barely known each other for more than a year when we got together. And we were friends. A little over a year ago, I was still doing a couple of houses here and there, I didn't have any apartments didn't have any commercial buildings, I was definitely very starting out. And to go from that to this is it was the mindset got bigger, and the networking got bigger. So those are the two biggest things, the mindset and the networking both got bigger for me. And that's how I've been able to go and get bigger and bigger and bigger. For example, actually, maybe Dalyn could put a link in this podcast, I'm about to release a book and Dalyn is featured in it, he wrote a portion in there. It's called the Five F's of life. The five F's of life, are faith, family, fun, fitness, and finance. So they're five F's, five principles, that if you focus on them, and you get them into your mindset, you will be more successful, guaranteed. And this new book is coming out, it's actually more of a pamphlet. It'll be an easy read lot of pictures. It'll be a picture of Dalyn in there, too. But in that five F's of life, I talk a little bit about getting into the zone, getting into that financial mindset where you're going to do bigger and be bigger and better. The way I get into the mindset every morning is I wake up at 530 Every morning, and this is different for everyone. I'm not saying do this because, for some people, it may not work. But for me, I wake up early, I exercise, I read scriptures or things that I hold dear to me, I meditate for a few minutes, I play with my daughter, I eat a healthy breakfast or a smoothie. So for me, I have almost you could say a ritual or a routine, something that I do every morning that gets me into that mindset. And I've jog six, sometimes seven miles every morning for the last two years. And I take a break on Sunday because everybody needs some rest. But I do this hard workout every day on dripping in sweat. And at the end of the workouts, I told myself, if I can do this heart of a thing this early in the morning, and it's only 6:30 am,  what else can I do today? So that's just a little example. And that's my way to do it, you may have a different way to do it, it doesn't have to be a specific way. It's just all about getting into that mindset. And getting into that, that mindset where I can do bigger, be better, be bigger. And that's really probably the best advice I could give, coupled with networking.

Dalyn Hazell  25:31  

No, that's fantastic advice. Because you have to think bigger to achieve bigger things. I mean, you can't keep thinking small to get where you're at. And not everyone's goal is to be as big as possible, maybe you just want to get enough units to retire. And that's good enough for you. But the bottom line is you have to get in that zone like Mike was saying. And I mean, the way I do it is pretty similar. Like I get up, not that early. But I, I do get up to have the same routine, brush my teeth,  he had a good breakfast, take a shower, and then that over time, it just builds up. And then you say, oh, I want to experiment with this habit or this habit, and then it just builds on top of each other. And soon before you know you're not even the same person you were before. So that's awesome. Have you experienced a change in identity or maybe life meaning now that you don't need to work for money anymore? I mean, theoretically, you could just go on vacation full time now. But you have a different approach? And so have you experienced a change in identity? Because it's probably easy to let all this success get to your head? Has your identity or life meaning changed in the last six months to a year?

Michael Bowman  26:43  

Yeah, it definitely has tended to that shortly. Yes. To get a little more in-depth. You ask my wife or my friends and family, I am probably not the most humble dude. And it's, it's hard. It's something I'm working on. But especially putting these big deals together and doing big things and becoming better. It's, it's been an opportunity for me to try and not get cocky or arrogant. You see some people, whether it's movie stars, or, or whoever, that just they acquire something that they didn't have before and it changes them. And I don't want to be that way I actually. And I try really hard to just be a good guy. And if you can see, Dalyn and I talking right now in person,  I've got some old basketball shorts that have some paint on them, I've got some Nikes they're actually fake Nikes because they were cheaper. And they're five years old. And I'm wearing a hoodie with an eye of a man bun. So, I mean, you look at me, you would think, who is that guy, he's just a normal guy. And I am a normal guy. But I feel like it has been a little harder.  putting these bigger deals together, keep it in my head. And Brittany has been amazing for that my wife, she, I mean, we go out and close millions of dollars in deals and make this much and do that much. And still, at the end of the day. She's like, that was decent or a good job. And that's all that's it. She's, she's not saying oh, you're the best ever? No, she just, she keeps me in my place. And I feel like we have a perfect balance. Because,  as much as we do, she's definitely like, yeah, that's good,  or, yeah, you're okay, so. So it definitely helps to be around somebody being married to somebody who kind of keeps me in check doesn't let it go to my head. I think that this has been an opportunity for me to help other people and grow. I was actually listening to a sermon the other day at church sermon. And one of the things I took away from it was never put aside a generous thought, or always act on a generous thought. So I feel like, as Brittany and I have been able to do bigger and better deals,  I've been able to serve a little bigger and better,  so if we're out with friends,  maybe I pick up the tab,  at the end of the meal, or I know somebody needs some help, then  I give them some help, whether it's financial or whatever, just going over and helping out bringing them dinner. So I feel like it's a good opportunity to grow when you get bigger and better and to help others when you get bigger and better. Because ultimately that is where most people get their fulfillment is from relationships from service. And you'll actually read about this in the five F's of life. I just got done with a rough draft yesterday of this new book. But a lot of what I talked about in there, a lot of what you'll read is about fulfillment and service. Because at the end of the day, you money can buy you a lot of things. It can buy you good food, it can buy you good houses, it can buy you travel, it can make your life easier. I definitely think making money is a good thing to do. I think it's something everybody should do. It'll help you have a better life. But doing that service and fulfillment and quality time with family is, is what really is going to bring you that long-lasting joy and happiness. And I would venture to say that I mean, much of my happiness, more happiness comes from my family and quality time with friends and loved ones than anything else. So I love doing deals, I get very, very excited when I do deals. When I make money. It's almost like,  I'm addicted to it,  it makes my endorphins go getting a good deal. But ultimately, what brings me joy, and what I try to focus on now is service fulfillment, and friends and family.

Dalyn Hazell  30:43  

Yeah, that's a great perspective. And I will say you didn't have to mention the man bun. Nobody could have known about that. You didn't have to embarrass yourself on air. But anyway, we'll move on. So Mike, like, Where? Where are you going from here? Because you kind of touched on it, you're still doing deals. But I mean, do you want to do bigger deals? Or is this kind of the end of the road for acquiring units? I mean, of course, we don't have a crystal ball. But where do you want to be in 510 15 years from now?

Michael Bowman  31:13  

Honestly, my goal is to be a stay-at-home dad, by the time I'm 30. And I'm 23. Now, so that gives me seven years. So I hope to in seven years, have my,  apartments paid off these 119 units. And that way, we, me and my wife have the income my family and I have the income, and we're not stressed about money. So I can be with my family enjoying quality time. And my wife right now is a stay-at-home mom, so she's with our baby. And she'll probably still be staying at home for the foreseeable future until we can get enough passive income where we can completely take the reins off of business. At that point, she wants to go back to work and do something that she loves. She loves clothes, and resale shops, maybe a boutique. So I think the  510 years down the road, I see,  me being a stay-at-home dad, my wife having some business that she's running so she can feel fulfilled. And also we love to serve, and some people go to church, some people don't. But I want to have the opportunity to serve and help and edify others, whether that's in church stuff, or whether that's in society stuff, or whether that's even in my own family, with my own kids or with my friends and family. So, so in five or 10 years, I plan to have my apartments paid off, and,  be enjoying life feeling fulfilled, allowing my wife to feel fulfilled, and helping others. That being said, I'm not originating any new loans right now. So I've got millions of dollars of loans right now, just off of that one apartment facility. So I'm not urging any, I'm not originating any new loans, and I probably won't, until I get that apartment paid off, within the next seven to 10 years. It's kind of, it's the nest egg, it's got everything that we need, it's got the income that my wife and I all need. So we're just focusing on paying that one-off. I do love buying and selling though. So I don't think that'll ever stop. I don't think it'll ever stop. Like Dalyn and said, My wife and I, we could probably just start vacationing and hanging out just off of the passive income on the 119 units. But I love to buy and sell and we have a goal to work towards,  paying off the apartments. So so I'm gonna keep buying and selling until the day I die. What I end up buying and selling between now and the day I die, who knows. But right now it's real estate because that's the best thing going that I can see.

Dalyn Hazell  33:50

Yeah, that's awesome that you're thinking about that. And it really allows you to be creative. When you have this income coming in, you can think, oh,  go back to school for this or start up this new venture. And a lot of people don't get the opportunity. So I think you're very blessed to have that. So Mike, do you have any kind of parting remarks on that you prepared a few remarks on your phone to go over, but I wanted to give you a chance to make any of those remarks before we kind of wrap it up here.

Michael Bowman  34:17  

Yeah, then the biggest thing that I want to mention, if you could only remember one thing from this, this whole podcast that Dalyn and I are doing, that you're listening to, is to be honest, so be honest, and be straight up. So if you've read my hustle, then repeat the very first book that I authored a few years ago, I talked about back selling cars in high school, and I wasn't really the most honest guy. I mean, I was doing whatever it took to get the car sold. And I think about that time and that's not the way that I want to continue going. And so I've been for the last few years and for actually longer than that even just trying to be an honest dude straight up, dude. So I'll tell you a little story. To wrap it up. It's about that 32 unit apartment complex that I recently sold to purchase the 119 units. When I was under contract after I had already you know on paper signed and agreed to sell the 32 unit apartment. I was getting cold feet like most people would get cold feet. I was trying for months and months trying to find a replacement property for this 32 unit apartment sale. And I didn't have anything like we talked about a few minutes ago damn anything. This is before I was introduced to the seller of the 119 unit apartments. And I was really, really getting cold feet to sell this 30 unit apartment. And I tried everything I could to back out of the 32 unit apartment sale, because I was like, Oh, I've got a good asset, and I can't find anything to replace it, this is dumb, I'm gonna have to pay taxes on the money and there's nothing else to reinvest. And with inflation going up, who knows how much the dollar is gonna be worth, Bob, all those thoughts run through your head. So I had all these thoughts going through my head saying back out, back out of the 32 unit sale. contractually, though I couldn't I signed a contract, I was bound, the buyer was bound, we had to sell it, it was on paper, and everything like that. So I tried for about a month to get out of the contract with this buyer, I just was trying to find any in and out anything that I could use any contingency that I could use to back out of the apartment sale. And I was scared, I was scared that I was selling the farm and that I was making a bad business decision. And at the end of that month of going back and forth with the buyer, the buyer threatened to sue me and blah, blah, blah. So there's a bunch of drama back and forth. And the buyer was actually pretty straight up, dude, he's a good guy, and we're friends now. But and we've done more deals since that 32 unit apartment, actually, he bought two apartment buildings that I sold him yesterday. But anyway, beside the point, me and the buyer, were going back and forth, and I was being covered not head,  I was being a little sneaky. And after going back and forth for that amount of time, I decided, You know what, I'm just gonna be honest, I'm just gonna stick to my word, I signed a contract, I'm gonna sell it. That's that if I have to pay taxes on the money, and what's the worst thing in the world that Oh, I had to pay taxes on profit, that's a good problem to have. So. So anyway, I decided to stay in the deal in the 32 units sale. And within weeks, I was able to connect with the seller of the 119 unit apartment complex within weeks, and I was able to work it out with the seller of the 119 unit apartment complexes. And now I look back, and selling that 32 unit was the biggest blessing ever when it comes to business. And finding that 119 unit apartment was the second biggest blessing ever. So I look back. And if I would have been a sketchy dude, if I would have gone to war, if I would have gotten an attorney or a lawyer and gone back and forth on that 32 unit sale that I was trying to back out of it, it would not have led me to probably the biggest and best deal that I'll ever do the 119 unit apartment. So if I can leave one thing, above all else is be honest, be straight up. A lot of people you do business with you will continue to do business with in the future. Depending on what town you're in, some towns are bigger than others. But if you screw people over, or if you're kind of a sheisty guy, then word gets out. I mean, word gets out there, there are people that I know in this town and Dalyn know that you know you, you get a contract from them, or you get a deal from them. And you wonder, is this going to happen or not,  cuz you've heard bad things about them. So I think that protecting that relationship that you have with your market is key. And being honest is is a good way to do that. It's probably one of the better ways to do that. And obviously, you want to be honest in all your things, whether it's business or not, with family and relationships, you won't be honest and straight up. So that's my one word of advice is, to be honest, and be straight up. Because it will lead to the biggest and best things you've ever had. And if you aren't honest and straight up, it'll come back to bite you in the butt somehow.

Dalyn Hazell  39:34  

Yeah, I mean, honesty really is the best policy as they teach you in school. And so I bet you kind of wonder what would have happened had you been dishonest and then not gotten the 119 units that would just keep me up at night for like the rest of my life. If I knew that not only did I  betray my own ethics, my own character, but then I lost out on something bigger. So definitely stay honest in all your dealings. And definitely, I mean, our town isn't super huge. It's got about 200,000 in it, but even with that, that size people know who you are, how you do business whether or not you close and carry through on your deals. I mean, in wholesaling especially it's a stigma that wholesalers regularly back out of contracts,  overestimate underestimate repairs, overestimate ARV, and so we just want to always be on the up and up in everything we do. For sure that would be that's a great piece of advice. Mike. Anything else you got for us before we kind of shut things down here that you want to leave the listeners with? We're not going to do our typical finals. questions, because we did that in the first episode. But anything else you have for us, that's just on your mind.

Michael Bowman  40:49 

I think you're in the right place, listening to this podcast, doing what you need to do, whether you're just starting out, or whether you're in the thick of it, or whether you've been doing it for a long time, I think you're in the right place. Truly, like the podcast name reads,  real estate helps you invest in your freedom. So if you want to be free, if you want to do the things you want to do, if you want to spend time with the people, you want to spend time when you want to real estate and investing, in general, is the place to be. And it sounds like you're well on your way, listening to this podcast,  being here with us today. And I applaud you for that. Good job. Feel free to find me you can message me or buy one of my books, I'm sure Dalyn and I'll have the links in the podcast or somewhere around there. But I think you're in the right place. And I wish the best to you in business and everything else.

Dalyn Hazell  41:44  

Yeah. Do you want to mention again, your social handles or however you prefer to be reached out at? Whether that's Instagram, Facebook, or email?

Michael Bowman  41:53  

Yeah, I think the best way is, and believe it or not, just text me I get so many contacts every day,  whether it's email or voicemail or calls. But if you get either just email me or shoot me a text, then that is the best way to reach me because then I can,  get to it as soon as I can. And don't forget. When I see the notification, I can say okay, I'm going to get to that in just a second. When it's a call, they just stack up so probably email or a text, but also through Amazon and get my books and stuff like that. I've got Instagram as well, where you could message me and it's at realtor Bowman is my Instagram. And I'm sure there will be a link on there too. But yeah, that's the best way to get a hold of me. Is it just a message or I can get back to it and have a notification.

Dalyn Hazell  42:42  

That certainly will have all those points of contact in the description of the show. But thanks again, Mike, you're really humbled us here and you definitely are on the right path. And you're only going up for here. So thank you for showing how people can just be honest and all their dealings and just set themselves up for life with real estate investing. Thank you.

Michael Bowman  43:03  

Thanks, Dalyn, and thanks to everybody for listening.

Outro  43:05  

Thank you for listening to the real estate investing for Freedom podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave us a review and tune in next week for the next episode.